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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 12, 1985 CITY of ANDOVER REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 12, 1985 - AGENDA Call to Order - 7:30 P.M. Approval of Minutes 1. Cornm. #9-85-3 Prairie Oaks Preliminary Plat, Cont. 2. Cornm. #9-85-4 CreekRidge Estates prelininary Plat, Cont. 3. Cornm. #10-85-4 Smith's Green Acres Preliminary Plat Public Hearing 4. Cornm. #9-85-9 Ordinance 46, Section 3A, Cont. Adjournment CITY of ANDOVER REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 12, 1985 - MINUTES The regularly scheduled Andover Planning and Zoning Commission meeting was called to order by Acting Chairman d'Arcy Bosell at 7:30 P.M., Tuesday, November 12, 1983 at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard N.W., Andover, HN. commissioners Present: Commissioners Absent: Also Present: Apel, Jovanovich, Rogers Jacobson, t'lard City Engineer, Jim Schrantz; Gene Bak; Bob Grover; Ken Gust; Tara O'!1alley; ot:lers Approval of Minutes October 22, 1985 The vote on the motion to approve the minutes of October 8th should be 4 yes, 1 present. MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Jovanovich to approve the minutes of October 22, 1985 as corrected. Motion carried on a 3 yes, 1 present (Apel) vote. 'OTE: Acting Chairman Bosell noted t:lat on the last page of the October 8th ..,inutes, she had suggested to 11r. Gust that he could possibly go down to 50 feet on his street. That statement is incorrect. Prairie Oaks prelirrinary Plat, Cant. (Comm. #9-85-3) Acting Chairman Bosell reopened the public hearing. Bob Grover and Gene Bak, developers - noted t:lat they have received a follow- up from the Review Committee with four general co~~ents. They felt that all of the items have been addressed, with the cxception of the lot \vidth at the setback line on t:le cul-de-sac lots. City Engineer Jim Schrantz - felt Llat a variance could be given for that lot (Lot 3, Block 11. ilr. Schran::z no'ceu that he asked the developers to increase the grade and they have donc that. There should be no drainage problems. We also have thc lowest floor elevation and the pond elevation. Ms. Bosell noted that the only open items are the length of the cul-de-sac and the setback on Lot 3, Block 1. She asked if there would be restrictive covenants on the plat. ~r. Bak stated no, but they would like to restrict them to higher priced homes. Ms. Bosell noted that on the legeno. it does not say that the sewage disposal is private systems and that needs to be on the plat that goes to the City ouncil. MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Apel to close the public hearing. Motion carried unanimously. Regular Planning _Jmmissi Meeting November 12, 1985 - Minutes Page 2 'Prairie Oaks, Cont.} It was noted that at a previous meeting, it was the concensus of the Commission that the cul-de-sac was probably the best use of the land. From the center- line of Prairie Road, the cul-de-sac is 1000 feet in length. Regarding the setback on Lot 3, Block 1, ~lr. Schrantz noted that on plats with large lots and cul-de-sacs, we have been allowing variances for the setback. Acting Chairman Bosell stated t~at in both of these cases, the hardship would be the configuration of the property. Mr. Schrantz stated that the City Council had suggested looping the street either to the north or the south. That possibility was investigated, but it would not allow the other properties to develop properly. MOTION by Apel, seconded by Rogers that the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission recommend to the City Council approval of the preliminary plat of Prairie Oaks, being developed by Gene Bak and Bob Grover, legally described as 'The North 660 feet of the Southeast Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of Section 23, Township 32, Range 24, Anoka County, Minnesota, except the North 300 feet of the East 400 feet thereof', with a variance being granted for the length of the cul-de-sac pursuant to Ordinance 10, Section 9.03 G. Also, that a variance be granted for Lot 3, Block 1 for the 300 feet at the setback line. In the case of the lot, the 300 feet is measured 105 feet back. This is 65 feet more than is required in Ordinance 10, Section 8.03 G and Ordinance , Section 6.02. Both variances are for topographical purposes. As a note, the Park Board has reviewed this plat and has decided to accept cash in lieu of land per their memo of 10/15/85. Approval is recommended for the following reasons: I} It conforms to the Comprehensive Plan; 21 It does not adversely affect the surrounding area; 3) It does not adversely affect traffic patterns in the area. The City Engineer has reviewed and commented on the plat and changes he has recommended have been taken care of by the developer. Motion carried unanimously. This will go to the City Council on December 3, 1985. NOTE: The preliminary plat legend is to include the sewage disposal by private systems statement. CreekRidge Estates Preliminary Plat, Cont. (COmill. #9-85-4) Acting Chairman Bosell reopened the public ~earing. Ken Gust - noted that there would be no restrictive covenants on the property; the area would be sinilar to Northglen. )ffi O'Malley, Surveyor - explained that the streets lKerry and Jonquil) have Deen realigned and some of the lot depths aave been changed. The lots are shown as being 140 feet and should be 146 feet to meet the requirements. Regular Planning CQJT1J;1ission !1eeting November 12, 1985 - Minutes Page 3 :reekRidge Estates, Cont.) Jim Schrantz - stated that he has been concerned with the water table. The revision of the plat will require less grading. One of the soil borings indicated sand over the peat; the developer will have to be careful to identify the peat boundary so we don't build over the peat. The oak trees are located on the high dry part of the lots. Mr. Schrantz noted that the alternate plan does not have house elevations on it. He stated that we have to determine what the lot size should be on the unsewered lots. Ms. Bosell felt that they should be 39,000 square feet with 165 feet of frontage. Mr. Schrantz stated that those lots will not be served by sewer in the future. He also noted that he has probleQs with Lots 1 and 2 of Block 6. Ms. Bosell asked if the property north of South Coon Creek Drive shown as park will actually be park land. ~1r. Gust stated no, they might make it an outlot and sometime in the future split it. Discussion centered on the size of the lots in the unsewered portion of the plat with Mr. Schrantz noting that technically the property is zoned R-4, but if we're not going to serve it, it should be R-l. Hs. Bosell felt that if the property is rezoned to R-l it would ~ake some uses possible that are not allowed in R-4. r. Schrantz asked Mr. Gust if they had thought of any way of saving the oak trees on the south side of South Coon Creek Drive. Hr. Gust said no. Mr. Schrantz noted that the grading plan shoHs that 90% of the oaks will be removed. Ms. Bosell noted that according to :.lolly Cor.leau of the Department of Natural Resources, our ordinance is not adopted so this plat does not have to meet their restrictions. She also noted the following items that need to be corrected or added to the plat: Eliminate the statement saying '13,000 sq. ft. within 300' of Round LakeL; the variance statement does not need to be on the legend; the setback along Coon Creek needs to be identified; In Phase II, the park land, and Lots 1 anci 2, Block 6 need to be shmffi as an outlot; basement elevations need to be ghO~fll on every lot; drainage and utility easements need to be shown on all side and rear lot lines; the outlot on the lake should be changed to park; the sewer line between Lots 27 and 28 needs to be shown with a dotted line. It was the concensus of the Commission that t!le unsewered lots should remain R-4 and each lot must be 39,000 square feet of buildable land and 165 feet of frontage. Ms. Bosell asked if the Commission agreed with extending Kerry and Jonquil straight out to SOuth Coon Creek. They all felt that it was the best use of the land so that the lots do not have to front on South Coon Creek Drive. Mr. Schrantz noted that the County flighway Department does not want any ~cesses to Round Lake Boulevard. Regular Planning Commission Meeting November 12, 1985 - Minutes Page 4 (CreekRidge Estates, Cont.) MOTION by Apel, seconded by Rogers to close the public hearing. Motion carried unanimously. This item will be continued to the November 26th meeting to give the developers the opportunity to redo the plat. Recess 8:40 - Reconvene 8:47 Smith's Green Acres Preliminary Plat Public Hearing (Comm. #10-85-1) Acting Chairman Bosell opened the public hearing. Ken Gust, engineer for developer - stated that Forest Oaks Condos is the name of the developer. Apparently there has been some misunderstanding among the residents that this development will be condominiums; however, the property is being platted as single family dwellings. The homes will be comparable with the existing homes in the area. The proposal is to only do a final plat on the west portion of the plat (Phase I). The east portion of the property contains quite a lot of peat and it is doubtful that it will ever be developed. Ms. Bosell noted that the property is zoned R-3 and requires 20,000 square foot lots; however, the Planning Commission has recommended to the developer that we would initiate a variance to have them corne in with 16,500 square feet so they are comparable with the lots to the north and south. Peter VonVett, 2890 - l41st Avenue N.W. - stated that his concern is the traffic. He realizes that there is a problem with the peat, but they do have a traffic problem and adding more houses will just add to it. He stated that if Dahlia Street is not constructed, they would oppose the houses being built. He noted that there will be 82 homes being served by one street. That means that 492 cars will be going past his house every day. This will be a 30% increase in traffic and it is unacceptable. He felt that Dahlia Street should have been put in when the sewer project was done. Mr. VonVett stated that they were all told that the area would never be developed. He also stated that in the winter they have quite a time because the city does not seem to be able to plow cul-de-sacs. Mr. VonVett presented a petition opposing the plat if Dahlia is not constructed. Ms. Bosell noted that the area known as Green Acres was platted prior to the time the city's Zoning Ordinance went into effect. John Noard, 14216 Heather Street N.W. - they have one exit out of that area and that has been an issue for the last 12 years. When the sewer was put in, one of the comments made was that when that field was developed, the street would be constructed. He felt that Dahlia Street should be put in at the same time that the lots are developed. Norm Nystrom, 2855 - l41st Avenue N.W. - asked what is going to happen to the land in Phase II before it's developed. Mr. Gust noted that they are not planning to do any grading in Phase II. He also noted that there is a sewer service off of 14lst Avenue just east of Mr. Nystrom's house which indicates that someone thought a house could be built there. Regular Planning Commission Meeting November 12, 1985 - Minutes Page 5 (Smith's Green Acres, Cont.) Mr. Simonson, 2926 - l42nd Lane N.W. - asked what the value of the houses will be. Mr. Gust stated that the proposed builder is Ziegler Construction and they have built houses on l42nd and Round Lake Boulevard. Mildred Day, 2939 - l42nd Lane N.W. - asked if eight houses are built and then the developer decides to sell the remaining lots if the value of the other houses will be the same as the existing ones. Ms. Bosell noted that the requirements for houses in. that area are 960 square feet living area and a gnrage that is a minimum of 440 square feet. The houses that are built will have to meet or exceed those requirements. Mrs. Walsh, 2859 - l42nd Lane N.W. - asked what it means that the well restrictions have been lifted. Mr. Schrantz explained that for a period of time everyone in that area had to put in a douThllie casing well if their well failed. The State Health Department has rescinded that requirement now. Mrs. Walsh asked if this plat will cause city water to be brought in. Mr. Schrantz felt that it would discourage city water because the new homes will all have new wells. Sonney Lowell, 13990 Flora Street N.W. - stated that the traffic' problem has been in existence for a long time and they have tried to have some- thing done to solve it. For a period of time there was a problem on Crocus Street and two stop signs were installed; one sign was taken down because someone was always runnit it down. Mr. Lowell noted that most of the people here are concerned with this particular problem. Ms. Bosell noted that one of the things to consider is what it would cost to maintain Dahlia Street if it is constructed. Silver Lake Road is built over peat and there is 10 to 12 feet of blacktop that is not solid. Dennis Hager, 14160 Heather Street N.W. - stated that he lives by the park and all it is going to take to have Dahlia Street constructed is to have one life lost. Dan Raduns, 2867 - l4lst Avenue N.W.- stated that the problem is only going to get worse. If more houses are built in that area someone is going to get hurt. There is only so much patrolling that the Sheriff can do. John Hibbard, 3015 - l42nd Lane N.W. - noted that he received a notice regarding this public hearing and his neighbor did not and he was wondering why. Ms. Bosell explained the 350 foot requirement for notifi- cation. Mark Sigmundik, 14154 Ivywood Street N.W. - stated that he is opposed to the development without another access. Dan Raduns felt that it is very important that everyone who is opposed to the development without another access say that they are opposed. Regular Planning Commission Meeting November 12, 1985 - Minutes Page 6 (Smith's Green Acres, Cont.) Mary Simcoe, 2929 - 142nd Lane N.W. - stated that some of the residents in the area are worried about their wells and what the additional wells will do. Mr. Schrantz stated that the Health Department controls the wells and the new ones will be equal to or better than the wells in the area now. Mrs. Simcoe noted that they were told that this area was to be developed as a park with a pond and she felt that it should be just that. Suzanne Aldrich, 13860 Crocus Street N.W. - noted that there are about 40 children in a small area and something should be done, but she was not sure what. Lana Ekmark, 2935 - 141st Avenue N.W. - asked if there will be split level houses built. Ms. Bosell noted that we did not know that. Mrs. Ekmark noted that they started pushing a road in there today and asked if they have any recourse. Ms. Bosell stated that the developer can put his street in without having the plat approved. It does not mean, however, that the plat will actually be approved. Ms. Bosell asked Mr. Gust if he thought there was a possibility that Dahlia Street can be constructed. Mr. Gust noted that whether it is constructed or not, there will be pressure to get another exit from that area. Dan Raduns stated that he does not want the development without Dahlia Street being constructed and he would fight it if the street is not going in. Mary Simcoe - noted that she does not want the development even if Dahlia Street is constructed. John Hibbard - noted that when Menkveld developed the area he said he would put a pond in there with houses around it. Mr. Gust noted that the soil borings show the peat gets deeper as you go from the west to the east. In places, it is 15 feet deep. He suggested that perhaps Dahlia Street could be constructed with it curving to go past Daniel Ross's lot. Ms. Bosell asked the engineer if it would be possible to have the city pay some of the costs of the street construction. Mr. Schrantz noted that it is city policy to have the people who benefit from the street pay for it. The city does not have funds to pay for it. Ms. Bosell noted that to connect 142nd Avenue to Dahlia Street, there are 160 feet that would need to be paid for by someone other than the developer. Sonney Lowell stated that he does not want to be assessed for another street. Regular Pl",_ ..ing Cm _ssion Meeting November 12, 1985 - Minutes Page 7 (Smith's Green Acres, Cont.) Ms. Bosell pointed out the fact that the developer can build four houses in that area without platting the property. Mr. Schrantz noted that as a land owner, the developer has the right to develop the property. Jim Elling, 13829 Northwood Drive felt there might be a chance that there is some money left from the Green Acres paving project to pay for the 160 feet of Dahlia Street. Mr. Schrantz stated that there is no way we can build that street. Mike Walsh, 2859 - 142nd Lane N.W. - stated that what is necessary is a separate exit out of the area. Mr. Schrantz noted that if we build a road to the north, he didn't think anyone would use it. We could extend Flora Street and come out by the school (Crooked Lake Elementary). Mr. Lowell asked what the procedure is after this meeting. Ms. Bosell explained that the minutes will be typed and the concerns of the residents will be in the minutes. The petition we received will go to the City Council. In regard to the plat itself, the Planning Commission needs to go through the process to make sure it is complaint with the ordinances. The Planning Commission will make a recommendation to the City Council and the Council has the final say. As far as the neighborhood, you will not receive any more notices regarding this plat. Mr. Schrantz noted that the property is zoned R-3. The name of the plat could be in question as it is similar to Smith's Rolling Oaks and Green Acres. He also noted the following: The majority of the property is below the 100 year flood evelation. The water table is 863. The traffic count would be approximately 10 trips per day per household. The property will be served by private wells and public sanitary sewer. The street will be 32 feet wide with concrete curb and gutter. Lot 1, Block 2 doesn't have enough depth. The Coon Creek Watershed District has asked for money. Mr. Gust didn't feel that it is the developer's responsibility to build all of Dahlia Street. He also stated that it will take the excavator about a week to do the grading for Phase I and he has to tell him either to keep going or to quit. Acting Chairman Bosell stated that the Commission is sympathetic with the problem of traffic, but we have to deal with the request that was made. She noted the following changes and corrections that need to be made on the plat: On the legend, it should say - Minimum lot size 20,000 square feet; minimum lot width 100 feet; minimum lot depth 150 feet. A typlical lot needs to be shown on the plat also. Lot 1, block 2 will require a variance for either lot depth or definition of lot front. Commissioner Apel noted that he would like to see a preliminary plat that has off of the items on it, rather than approving a plat with items missing. Ms. Bosell suggested that Mr. Gust find out what the easement is on the Regular Pl&.. .ing CO! _ssion Meeting November 12, 1985 - Minutes Page 8 (Smith's Green Acres, Cant.) ditch and also what can be done along the ditch. This item will be continued at the November 26, 1985 meeting. Ordinance 46, Section 3A, Cant. (Comm. #9-85-9) This item will be continued at the November 26, 1985 meeting. MOTION by Apel, seconded by Rogers to adjourn. Motion carried un- animously. Meeting adjourned at 11:48 P.M. Respectfully submitted, L~ i..w Victoria Volk Commission Secretary