HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 12, 1985
CITY of ANDOVER
REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
NOVEMBER 12, 1985 - AGENDA
Call to Order - 7:30 P.M.
Approval of Minutes
1. Cornm. #9-85-3 Prairie Oaks Preliminary Plat, Cont.
2. Cornm. #9-85-4 CreekRidge Estates prelininary Plat, Cont.
3. Cornm. #10-85-4 Smith's Green Acres Preliminary Plat Public
Hearing
4. Cornm. #9-85-9
Ordinance 46, Section 3A, Cont.
Adjournment
CITY of ANDOVER
REGULAR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
NOVEMBER 12, 1985 - MINUTES
The regularly scheduled Andover Planning and Zoning Commission meeting was
called to order by Acting Chairman d'Arcy Bosell at 7:30 P.M., Tuesday,
November 12, 1983 at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard N.W.,
Andover, HN.
commissioners Present:
Commissioners Absent:
Also Present:
Apel, Jovanovich, Rogers
Jacobson, t'lard
City Engineer, Jim Schrantz; Gene Bak; Bob Grover;
Ken Gust; Tara O'!1alley; ot:lers
Approval of Minutes
October 22, 1985
The vote on the motion to approve the minutes of October 8th should be 4 yes,
1 present.
MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Jovanovich to approve the minutes of October 22,
1985 as corrected. Motion carried on a 3 yes, 1 present (Apel) vote.
'OTE: Acting Chairman Bosell noted t:lat on the last page of the October 8th
..,inutes, she had suggested to 11r. Gust that he could possibly go down to
50 feet on his street. That statement is incorrect.
Prairie Oaks prelirrinary Plat, Cant.
(Comm. #9-85-3)
Acting Chairman Bosell reopened the public hearing.
Bob Grover and Gene Bak, developers - noted t:lat they have received a follow-
up from the Review Committee with four general co~~ents. They felt that all
of the items have been addressed, with the cxception of the lot \vidth at
the setback line on t:le cul-de-sac lots.
City Engineer Jim Schrantz - felt Llat a variance could be given for that
lot (Lot 3, Block 11. ilr. Schran::z no'ceu that he asked the developers to
increase the grade and they have donc that. There should be no drainage
problems. We also have thc lowest floor elevation and the pond elevation.
Ms. Bosell noted that the only open items are the length of the cul-de-sac
and the setback on Lot 3, Block 1. She asked if there would be restrictive
covenants on the plat. ~r. Bak stated no, but they would like to restrict
them to higher priced homes.
Ms. Bosell noted that on the legeno. it does not say that the sewage disposal
is private systems and that needs to be on the plat that goes to the City
ouncil.
MOTION by Rogers, seconded by Apel to close the public hearing. Motion
carried unanimously.
Regular Planning _Jmmissi Meeting
November 12, 1985 - Minutes
Page 2
'Prairie Oaks, Cont.}
It was noted that at a previous meeting, it was the concensus of the Commission
that the cul-de-sac was probably the best use of the land. From the center-
line of Prairie Road, the cul-de-sac is 1000 feet in length.
Regarding the setback on Lot 3, Block 1, ~lr. Schrantz noted that on plats with
large lots and cul-de-sacs, we have been allowing variances for the setback.
Acting Chairman Bosell stated t~at in both of these cases, the hardship would
be the configuration of the property.
Mr. Schrantz stated that the City Council had suggested looping the street
either to the north or the south. That possibility was investigated, but
it would not allow the other properties to develop properly.
MOTION by Apel, seconded by Rogers that the Andover Planning and Zoning
Commission recommend to the City Council approval of the preliminary plat of
Prairie Oaks, being developed by Gene Bak and Bob Grover, legally described
as 'The North 660 feet of the Southeast Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of
Section 23, Township 32, Range 24, Anoka County, Minnesota, except the North
300 feet of the East 400 feet thereof', with a variance being granted for
the length of the cul-de-sac pursuant to Ordinance 10, Section 9.03 G. Also,
that a variance be granted for Lot 3, Block 1 for the 300 feet at the setback
line. In the case of the lot, the 300 feet is measured 105 feet back. This
is 65 feet more than is required in Ordinance 10, Section 8.03 G and Ordinance
, Section 6.02. Both variances are for topographical purposes.
As a note, the Park Board has reviewed this plat and has decided to accept
cash in lieu of land per their memo of 10/15/85.
Approval is recommended for the following reasons: I} It conforms to the
Comprehensive Plan; 21 It does not adversely affect the surrounding area;
3) It does not adversely affect traffic patterns in the area.
The City Engineer has reviewed and commented on the plat and changes he has
recommended have been taken care of by the developer.
Motion carried unanimously. This will go to the City Council on December 3,
1985.
NOTE: The preliminary plat legend is to include the sewage disposal by private
systems statement.
CreekRidge Estates Preliminary Plat, Cont. (COmill. #9-85-4)
Acting Chairman Bosell reopened the public ~earing.
Ken Gust - noted that there would be no restrictive covenants on the property;
the area would be sinilar to Northglen.
)ffi O'Malley, Surveyor - explained that the streets lKerry and Jonquil) have
Deen realigned and some of the lot depths aave been changed. The lots are
shown as being 140 feet and should be 146 feet to meet the requirements.
Regular Planning CQJT1J;1ission !1eeting
November 12, 1985 - Minutes
Page 3
:reekRidge Estates, Cont.)
Jim Schrantz - stated that he has been concerned with the water table. The
revision of the plat will require less grading. One of the soil borings
indicated sand over the peat; the developer will have to be careful to
identify the peat boundary so we don't build over the peat. The oak trees
are located on the high dry part of the lots. Mr. Schrantz noted that the
alternate plan does not have house elevations on it. He stated that we have
to determine what the lot size should be on the unsewered lots.
Ms. Bosell felt that they should be 39,000 square feet with 165 feet of
frontage.
Mr. Schrantz stated that those lots will not be served by sewer in the future.
He also noted that he has probleQs with Lots 1 and 2 of Block 6.
Ms. Bosell asked if the property north of South Coon Creek Drive shown as
park will actually be park land. ~1r. Gust stated no, they might make it an
outlot and sometime in the future split it.
Discussion centered on the size of the lots in the unsewered portion of the
plat with Mr. Schrantz noting that technically the property is zoned R-4, but
if we're not going to serve it, it should be R-l. Hs. Bosell felt that if
the property is rezoned to R-l it would ~ake some uses possible that are not
allowed in R-4.
r. Schrantz asked Mr. Gust if they had thought of any way of saving the oak
trees on the south side of South Coon Creek Drive. Hr. Gust said no. Mr.
Schrantz noted that the grading plan shoHs that 90% of the oaks will be removed.
Ms. Bosell noted that according to :.lolly Cor.leau of the Department of Natural
Resources, our ordinance is not adopted so this plat does not have to meet
their restrictions. She also noted the following items that need to be
corrected or added to the plat: Eliminate the statement saying '13,000 sq.
ft. within 300' of Round LakeL; the variance statement does not need to be
on the legend; the setback along Coon Creek needs to be identified; In Phase
II, the park land, and Lots 1 anci 2, Block 6 need to be shmffi as an outlot;
basement elevations need to be ghO~fll on every lot; drainage and utility
easements need to be shown on all side and rear lot lines; the outlot on the
lake should be changed to park; the sewer line between Lots 27 and 28 needs
to be shown with a dotted line.
It was the concensus of the Commission that t!le unsewered lots should remain
R-4 and each lot must be 39,000 square feet of buildable land and 165 feet
of frontage.
Ms. Bosell asked if the Commission agreed with extending Kerry and Jonquil
straight out to SOuth Coon Creek. They all felt that it was the best use
of the land so that the lots do not have to front on South Coon Creek Drive.
Mr. Schrantz noted that the County flighway Department does not want any
~cesses to Round Lake Boulevard.
Regular Planning Commission Meeting
November 12, 1985 - Minutes
Page 4
(CreekRidge Estates, Cont.)
MOTION by Apel, seconded by Rogers to close the public hearing. Motion
carried unanimously.
This item will be continued to the November 26th meeting to give the
developers the opportunity to redo the plat.
Recess 8:40 - Reconvene 8:47
Smith's Green Acres Preliminary Plat Public Hearing (Comm. #10-85-1)
Acting Chairman Bosell opened the public hearing.
Ken Gust, engineer for developer - stated that Forest Oaks Condos is the
name of the developer. Apparently there has been some misunderstanding
among the residents that this development will be condominiums; however,
the property is being platted as single family dwellings. The homes will
be comparable with the existing homes in the area. The proposal is to
only do a final plat on the west portion of the plat (Phase I). The east
portion of the property contains quite a lot of peat and it is doubtful
that it will ever be developed.
Ms. Bosell noted that the property is zoned R-3 and requires 20,000 square
foot lots; however, the Planning Commission has recommended to the developer
that we would initiate a variance to have them corne in with 16,500 square
feet so they are comparable with the lots to the north and south.
Peter VonVett, 2890 - l41st Avenue N.W. - stated that his concern is the
traffic. He realizes that there is a problem with the peat, but they do
have a traffic problem and adding more houses will just add to it. He
stated that if Dahlia Street is not constructed, they would oppose the
houses being built. He noted that there will be 82 homes being served by
one street. That means that 492 cars will be going past his house every
day. This will be a 30% increase in traffic and it is unacceptable. He
felt that Dahlia Street should have been put in when the sewer project was
done. Mr. VonVett stated that they were all told that the area would never
be developed. He also stated that in the winter they have quite a time
because the city does not seem to be able to plow cul-de-sacs. Mr. VonVett
presented a petition opposing the plat if Dahlia is not constructed.
Ms. Bosell noted that the area known as Green Acres was platted prior to
the time the city's Zoning Ordinance went into effect.
John Noard, 14216 Heather Street N.W. - they have one exit out of that
area and that has been an issue for the last 12 years. When the sewer was
put in, one of the comments made was that when that field was developed, the
street would be constructed. He felt that Dahlia Street should be put in at
the same time that the lots are developed.
Norm Nystrom, 2855 - l41st Avenue N.W. - asked what is going to happen to
the land in Phase II before it's developed.
Mr. Gust noted that they are not planning to do any grading in Phase II.
He also noted that there is a sewer service off of 14lst Avenue just east
of Mr. Nystrom's house which indicates that someone thought a house could
be built there.
Regular Planning Commission Meeting
November 12, 1985 - Minutes
Page 5
(Smith's Green Acres, Cont.)
Mr. Simonson, 2926 - l42nd Lane N.W. - asked what the value of the houses
will be. Mr. Gust stated that the proposed builder is Ziegler Construction
and they have built houses on l42nd and Round Lake Boulevard.
Mildred Day, 2939 - l42nd Lane N.W. - asked if eight houses are built
and then the developer decides to sell the remaining lots if the value
of the other houses will be the same as the existing ones.
Ms. Bosell noted that the requirements for houses in. that area are 960
square feet living area and a gnrage that is a minimum of 440 square feet.
The houses that are built will have to meet or exceed those requirements.
Mrs. Walsh, 2859 - l42nd Lane N.W. - asked what it means that the well
restrictions have been lifted.
Mr. Schrantz explained that for a period of time everyone in that area
had to put in a douThllie casing well if their well failed. The State Health
Department has rescinded that requirement now.
Mrs. Walsh asked if this plat will cause city water to be brought in. Mr.
Schrantz felt that it would discourage city water because the new homes
will all have new wells.
Sonney Lowell, 13990 Flora Street N.W. - stated that the traffic' problem
has been in existence for a long time and they have tried to have some-
thing done to solve it. For a period of time there was a problem on
Crocus Street and two stop signs were installed; one sign was taken down
because someone was always runnit it down. Mr. Lowell noted that most
of the people here are concerned with this particular problem.
Ms. Bosell noted that one of the things to consider is what it would cost
to maintain Dahlia Street if it is constructed. Silver Lake Road is built
over peat and there is 10 to 12 feet of blacktop that is not solid.
Dennis Hager, 14160 Heather Street N.W. - stated that he lives by the park
and all it is going to take to have Dahlia Street constructed is to have
one life lost.
Dan Raduns, 2867 - l4lst Avenue N.W.- stated that the problem is only going
to get worse. If more houses are built in that area someone is going to
get hurt. There is only so much patrolling that the Sheriff can do.
John Hibbard, 3015 - l42nd Lane N.W. - noted that he received a notice
regarding this public hearing and his neighbor did not and he was
wondering why. Ms. Bosell explained the 350 foot requirement for notifi-
cation.
Mark Sigmundik, 14154 Ivywood Street N.W. - stated that he is opposed to
the development without another access.
Dan Raduns felt that it is very important that everyone who is opposed
to the development without another access say that they are opposed.
Regular Planning Commission Meeting
November 12, 1985 - Minutes
Page 6
(Smith's Green Acres, Cont.)
Mary Simcoe, 2929 - 142nd Lane N.W. - stated that some of the residents
in the area are worried about their wells and what the additional wells
will do.
Mr. Schrantz stated that the Health Department controls the wells and
the new ones will be equal to or better than the wells in the area now.
Mrs. Simcoe noted that they were told that this area was to be developed
as a park with a pond and she felt that it should be just that.
Suzanne Aldrich, 13860 Crocus Street N.W. - noted that there are about
40 children in a small area and something should be done, but she was
not sure what.
Lana Ekmark, 2935 - 141st Avenue N.W. - asked if there will be split
level houses built. Ms. Bosell noted that we did not know that. Mrs.
Ekmark noted that they started pushing a road in there today and asked
if they have any recourse. Ms. Bosell stated that the developer can
put his street in without having the plat approved. It does not mean,
however, that the plat will actually be approved.
Ms. Bosell asked Mr. Gust if he thought there was a possibility that
Dahlia Street can be constructed. Mr. Gust noted that whether it is
constructed or not, there will be pressure to get another exit from
that area.
Dan Raduns stated that he does not want the development without Dahlia
Street being constructed and he would fight it if the street is not
going in.
Mary Simcoe - noted that she does not want the development even if
Dahlia Street is constructed.
John Hibbard - noted that when Menkveld developed the area he said he
would put a pond in there with houses around it.
Mr. Gust noted that the soil borings show the peat gets deeper as you
go from the west to the east. In places, it is 15 feet deep. He
suggested that perhaps Dahlia Street could be constructed with it
curving to go past Daniel Ross's lot.
Ms. Bosell asked the engineer if it would be possible to have the
city pay some of the costs of the street construction. Mr. Schrantz
noted that it is city policy to have the people who benefit from the
street pay for it. The city does not have funds to pay for it.
Ms. Bosell noted that to connect 142nd Avenue to Dahlia Street, there
are 160 feet that would need to be paid for by someone other than the
developer.
Sonney Lowell stated that he does not want to be assessed for another
street.
Regular Pl",_ ..ing Cm _ssion Meeting
November 12, 1985 - Minutes
Page 7
(Smith's Green Acres, Cont.)
Ms. Bosell pointed out the fact that the developer can build four
houses in that area without platting the property. Mr. Schrantz noted
that as a land owner, the developer has the right to develop the property.
Jim Elling, 13829 Northwood Drive felt there might be a chance that
there is some money left from the Green Acres paving project to pay for
the 160 feet of Dahlia Street.
Mr. Schrantz stated that there is no way we can build that street.
Mike Walsh, 2859 - 142nd Lane N.W. - stated that what is necessary is a
separate exit out of the area.
Mr. Schrantz noted that if we build a road to the north, he didn't think
anyone would use it. We could extend Flora Street and come out by the
school (Crooked Lake Elementary).
Mr. Lowell asked what the procedure is after this meeting.
Ms. Bosell explained that the minutes will be typed and the concerns of
the residents will be in the minutes. The petition we received will go
to the City Council. In regard to the plat itself, the Planning
Commission needs to go through the process to make sure it is complaint
with the ordinances. The Planning Commission will make a recommendation
to the City Council and the Council has the final say. As far as the
neighborhood, you will not receive any more notices regarding this plat.
Mr. Schrantz noted that the property is zoned R-3. The name of the
plat could be in question as it is similar to Smith's Rolling Oaks and
Green Acres. He also noted the following: The majority of the property
is below the 100 year flood evelation. The water table is 863. The
traffic count would be approximately 10 trips per day per household.
The property will be served by private wells and public sanitary sewer.
The street will be 32 feet wide with concrete curb and gutter. Lot 1,
Block 2 doesn't have enough depth. The Coon Creek Watershed District
has asked for money.
Mr. Gust didn't feel that it is the developer's responsibility to build
all of Dahlia Street. He also stated that it will take the excavator
about a week to do the grading for Phase I and he has to tell him either
to keep going or to quit.
Acting Chairman Bosell stated that the Commission is sympathetic with
the problem of traffic, but we have to deal with the request that was
made. She noted the following changes and corrections that need to be
made on the plat: On the legend, it should say - Minimum lot size 20,000
square feet; minimum lot width 100 feet; minimum lot depth 150 feet.
A typlical lot needs to be shown on the plat also. Lot 1, block 2 will
require a variance for either lot depth or definition of lot front.
Commissioner Apel noted that he would like to see a preliminary plat
that has off of the items on it, rather than approving a plat with items
missing.
Ms. Bosell suggested that Mr. Gust find out what the easement is on the
Regular Pl&.. .ing CO! _ssion Meeting
November 12, 1985 - Minutes
Page 8
(Smith's Green Acres, Cant.)
ditch and also what can be done along the ditch.
This item will be continued at the November 26, 1985 meeting.
Ordinance 46, Section 3A, Cant. (Comm. #9-85-9)
This item will be continued at the November 26, 1985 meeting.
MOTION by Apel, seconded by Rogers to adjourn. Motion carried un-
animously.
Meeting adjourned at 11:48 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
L~ i..w
Victoria Volk
Commission Secretary