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HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 8, 2002 u o o CITY of ANDOVER ~ CLaJ ~' 11./2-62- PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - OCTOBER 8, 2002 The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Acting Chairperson Dean Daninger on October 8,2002, 7:00 p.m:, at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Commissioners Tim Kirchoff, Douglas Falk, Tony Gamache, Rex Greenwald, Dean Daningcr and Paula Larsen. Commissioners absent: Chairperson Jay Squires. Also present: City Planner, Courtney Bednarz Others . ,r-----\ APPROVAL OF MINUTES. "-/ , " \J September 24, 2002 Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, O-present, I-absent vote. PUBLIC HEARING: LOT SPLIT (02-10) TO CREATE TWO RURAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES FROM PROPER TY LOCA TED AT 16287 MAKAR STREET NW FOR SANDRA AND SCHUYLER WALLACE. Mr. Bednarz explained that the applicant is seeking approval of a proposal to divide the subject property into two rural residential lots. An existing house on the western half of the property will remain and one new lot will be created on the eastern half. Mr. Bednarz discussed the survey of the proposed lot split with the Commission. Mr. Bednarz stated in an attempt to minimize any costs before the lot split has been approved, the applicant has not submitted all of the necessary materials. The materials to be included include 3-signedoriginal copies of the survey, which show: 1. 2. Placement of the new property line. A 10- foot easement around the perimeter of both properties. Regular Andover Plan~~ and Zoning Commission Meeting U Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 2 /-"\ \~ 3. Placement of any new structures, which conform to all City building and zoning, codes. Locations for two 5,000 square foot (I 0,000 square foot total) septic areas. Legal descriptions of the new properties. 4. 5. The Committee has three options: 1. Require the applicant to submit all necessary materials before the Commission reviews the application. 2. Recommend approval of the lot split, but require the applicant submit all necessary materials before this proceeds to the City Council. 3. Recommend approval of the lot split, but require the applicant submit all necessary materials before the lot split is recorded with Anoka County. Commissioner Greenwald asked what they were approving. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated they would be making a recommendation of approval or denial of the lot split based on the survey. Commissioner Greenwald asked if this would be coming back to them. Mr. Bednarz stated it depended on the decision made in their recommendation. r-'\ Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Falk, to open the public hearing at 7:05 p.m. Motion \..j carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. There was no public input. Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Gamache, to close the public hearing at 7:05 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Gamache stated per the Ordinance the only problem with this is that there is not a survey. Mr. Bednarz stated this is correct and per the staff review it seems the lot can hold all the requirements, but they need the survey to prove this. Commissioner Greenwald stated he could see why the owner would want to do this because they could put a lot of expense into it and not get approved. Mr. Bednarz stated that is part of the reason because it is expensive but they do want to look ahead and set a firm policy on how they want to review the lot splits. Commissioner Greenwald asked if it meets all requirements, do they not need to see it agam. " C) Commissioner Falk stated he would like to see everything in front of him before approving it in the future but he would move forward with this one. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated for this applicant Commissioner Falk would like to use option two and in the future look at option number 1. Commissioner Falk agreed and so did the rest of the Commission. , -" i, .J ( " ....-j ~j Regular Andover PlanI:J and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 3 Motion by Falk, seconded by Gamache, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the Lot Split (02-10) to create two rural residential properties from property located at 16287 Makah Street NW. And that the applicant have all necessary paperwork in hand and to the City Council before the presentation and they must meet all requirements. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item could be before the Council at the November 6, 2002 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING (02-02) TO CHANGE THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM R-l SINGLE FAMILY RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO R-4 SINGLE FAMILY URBAN RESIDENTIAL ON OUTLOT C OF WOODLAND ESTATES r ADDITION FOR WOODLAND DEVELOPMENT ON PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF WOODLAND ESTATES SECOND ADDITION. Mr. Bednarz explained the Planning Commission is asked to review the proposed rezoning to allow the Woodland Estates Third Addition Project to move forward. As with all rezonings, the City must meet one of the two following findings that are provided by state statute: 1. 2. The original zoning was in error. The character of the area or times and conditions have changed to such an extent to warrant the Rezoning. The City Council approved a Comprehensive Plan Amendment on July 2, 2002 to bring the subject property into the Metropolitan Urban Service Area (MUSA). As a part of this approval the City Council acknowledged that times and conditions have changed to such an extent as to warrant the extension of utilities to this property. It is therefore appropriate to allow the property to be rezoned to R-4 Single Family Urban Residential to allow the proposed project to move forward. Commissioner Greenwald asked what the size of the property is. Mr. Bednarz stated it is a little over five acres. Commissioner Greenwald asked how many houses they would get out of it. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated it looked like thirteen lots. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Kirchoff, to open the public hearing at 7:18 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. There was no public input. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to close the public hearing at 7:18 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. C) C) () Regular Andover PIanO and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 4 Motion by Falk, seconded by Gamache, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the rezoning (02-02) to change the zoning designation from R-l Single Family Rural Residential to R-4 Single Family Urban Residential on Outlot C of Woodland Estates 2nd Addition for Woodland Development. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the November 6, 2002 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT OF A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT TO BE KNOWN AS WOODLAND ESTATES JRD ADDITION FOR WOODLAND DEVELOPMENT ON PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF WOODLAND ESTATES SECOND ADDITION. Mr. Bednarz explained the Planning Commission is asked to review the preliminary plat of Woodland Estates 3rd Addition. Mr. Bednarz discussed the preliminary plat with the Commission. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Larsen, to open the public hearing at 7:19 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. There was no public input. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to close the public hearing at 7:19 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Gamache stated the plan shows two outlots and the variance is calling for one. Mr. Bednarz stated this is correct and the outlot B is a similar situation that would be connected to property to the north when extended. Commissioner Gamache asked if this would be included in the variance or would there be separate variances for each lot. Mr. Bednarz stated they could include both outlots in one variance. Commissioner Gamache stated on item five on the agenda regarding boulevard sodding, did they not already pass the new ordinance regarding the black dirt over the entire yard and sO,d to the front setback. Mr. Bednarz stated those requirements typically fall to the homeowner unless there is an agreement with the builder. The sodding of the boulevard is the developer's responsibility. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he wanted to make it clear that this is a temporary cul-de- sac because they have come up across this in the past and he liked how it was shown that way in the map. Mr. Bednarz stated it is the City's policy to put up a temporary sign indicating this. Regular Andover PlanQ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 5 (J Commissioner Gamache asked if the parcel north of the parcel being discussed was still outside of the 2020 boundary. Mr. Bednarz stated this is correct. Commissioner Gamache stated it would appear that they would still be looking at rezoning this in the future if the Met Council agrees to that. Mr. Bednarz stated utilities would not be brought to the property until 2020 or beyond according to the sewer staging plan. Commissioner Falk asked what the length of the cul-de-sac need to be. Mr. Bednarz stated the typical maximum is 500 feet. Commissioner Falk asked if it were five hundred feet, would this road be half of this. Mr. Bednarz stated it is close but less than 500 feet. Commissioner Kirchoff asked if a temporary cul-de-sac is a dead end or is there room for emergency vehicles to turn around. Mr. Bednarz stated they provide eyebrows at the edges of the typical street for the temporary cul-de-sac and there is room to turn around. Motion by Larsen, seconded by Gamache, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. -' approving the Preliminary Plat of a single-family residential development. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Cj Commissioner Greenwald asked when the plat is approved if the boulevard sodding requirements are based on it being approved on what the ordinances say today or what they are when developed. Mr. Bednarz stated the sodding requirement is part of the development agreement and not part of the resolution that is approved with the plat. Commissioner Gamache asked if the Ordinance passed also include homeowners. Mr. Bednarz stated the homeowner would be responsible for the sod or seed in the front yard to the front property line and from the front property line to the curb is the developer's responsibility. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the November 6, 2002 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING (02-03) TO CHANGE THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM R-3 SINGLE FAMILY SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL TO R-4 SINGLE FAMILY URBAN RESIDENTIAL ON PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1703, 1663 AND 1653 ANDOVER BOULEVARD. Mr. Bednarz explained that this rezoning is necessary to allow the Foxburgh Crossing housing development to move forward. As with all rezonings, the City must meet one of the two following fmdings that are provided by state statute: 1. 2. The original zoning was in error. The character of the area or times and conditions have changed to such an extent to warrant the Rezoning. (~ o (~\ U ,--...... '~j Regular Andover PIanO and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 6 It is staff's position that time and conditions have changed such to warrant a rezoning due to the following: 1. The subject properties are located within the Metropolitan Urban Service Area (MUSA) 2. The R-3 Single Family Suburban Zoning District was created to accommodate future urban development at the time when utilities became available. 3. Utilities are available to service the property. Commissioner Kirchoff asked how many units were in the original proposal. Mr. Bednarz stated it was thirty-five units. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Larsen, to open the public hearing at 7:29 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, I-nays (Daninger), I-absent vote. There was no public input. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 7:29 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, I-nays (Daninger), I-absent vote. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Falk, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the rezoning (02-03) to change the zoning designation from R-3 Single Family Suburban Residential to R-4 Single Family Urban Residential on property located at 1703, 1663 and 1653 Andover Boulevard. Motion carried on a 5- ayes, I-nays (Daninger), I-absent vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the October 15,2002 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT OF A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT TO BE KNOWN AS FOXBOROUGH CROSSING FOR GRAND TETON DEVELOPMENT ON PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1703, 1663 AND 1653 ANDOVER BOULEVARD. Mr. Bednarz explained that the Planning Commission is asked to review the preliminary plat of Foxburgh Crossing containing 13 single-family lots. Mr. Bednarz reviewed the preliminary plat with the Commission. Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Larsen, to open the public hearing at 7:31 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, I-nays (Daninger), I-absent vote. There was no public input. Regular Andover PlannQ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 7 () Motion by Gamache, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 7:31 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, I-nays (Daninger), I-absent vote. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that looking at some of the issues brought forward the last time this was before them, there was a lot of concerns from the neighborhood and he wanted to commend the developers for coming forward with this proposal because it seems to alleviate all the concerns in the neighbor. It has minimized what can be done and still makes some good use of this property. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he liked the looks of the plans. Commissioner Falk stated he agreed that they had a very good plan because the previous plan was very dense and this one is not. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Larsen, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. ~, approving the Preliminary Plat of a single family residential development to be known as Foxburgh Crossing for Grand Teton Development on property located at 1703, 1663 and 1653 Andover Boulevard. Motion carried on a 5- ayes, I-nays (Daninger), I-absent vote. (J Commissioner Greenwald stated it said somewhere that they would be required to move trees, if need be and he asked if the couldn't just take a tree down and replant new ones, because some of them were pretty large. Mr. Bednarz stated the developer has indicated they would try to move and save as many trees as possible but some larger trees would be removed. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the October 15, 2002 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: RESIDENTIAL SKETCH PLAN FOR A SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT TO BE KNOWN AS WOODLAND CREEK GOLF COURSE VILLAS LOCA TED AT 3200 SOUTH COON CREEK DRIVE. Mr. Bednarz explained that the Planning Commission is asked to review a sketch plan for a housing development containing 11 urban residential lots. Mr. Bednarz stated the proposed site is designated Urban Residential Low Density in the Comprehensive Plan which carries a maximum density of four units per acre. The proposed housing development would have a density of3.96 units per acre. He went on to summarize the staff report and indicated the following: 1. The property is located outside the Metropolitan Urban Service Area (MUSA). A minor Comprehensive Plan Amendment will be necessary to allow the project to move forward. () r-) 0 Regular Andover Plan~iflg and Zoning Commission Me~ting Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 8 (..) '--- . 2. The property is currently zoned Single Family Urban Residential (R-4), which carries a minimum lot width of 80 feet and a minimum lot size of 11,400 square feet. The proposed project would require Planned Unit Development Review to reduce the lot sizes and setbacks from the typical R-4 standards. Commissioner Gamache asked if the needed to approve a variance for each lot because they are under square footage and lot width. Mr. Bednarz stated this is not the approach they would propose. If the Commission and Council is amenable to a smaller lot size, that could be achieved by allowing planned unit development review, which essentially would set different standards for this development. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Larsen, to 'open the public hearing at 7:39 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, I-nays (Daninger), I-absent vote. Mr. Gary Thielen, 3324 South Coon Creek Drive stated there were going to be two homeowners properties affected by this. He stated he is concerned with the value of his property and according to the tax assessor; he would have at least a thirty thousand-value loss in his property if this development were to occur. He stated he has been a resident of Andover for fourteen years and he thought they had an Ordinance that stated no two houses by each other can have the same house front and is this one of the many waivers they would need to get in order to get this approved. He stated the road is on private ("\ property and he was told many times before that the City couldn't do any thing to ,-J improve the value of someone's property. Mr. Thielen stated they are also talking about putting a restaurant and bar in the clubhouse, which is next to a City park. He stated the lift station is a concern because it is a property value concern. He stated he talked to Mr. Bednarz last week regarding the letter he received regarding the hearing and Mr. Bednarz told him at that time that this was the first he had heard of the development and then at the meeting last night Mr. Bednarz told them the City had been working with them since April. Mr. Bednarz stated that what was indicated on the phone was when they received the proposal, they send out a public notice. Mr. Thielen asked how many projects is he working on now without the residents knowing. Mr. Bednarz stated he gets inquiries daily regarding a variety of properties. Mr. Thielen stated when Mr. Charen had his public hearing on getting permits to add to his house a couple of months ago, obviously they have been working on this since April, a lot of the permits had to be issued over the four month period and why was Mr. Charen not informed at that time of a proposed development going in behind them. Mr. Bednarz stated there was not consideration of a development at that time. Mr. Mike Charen, 3336 South Coon Creek Drive, stated he would be the other property directly affected by the rezoning and he also has a golf course lot and if this goes in, they (~ will be directly cut off from the golf course. He is concerned about what this will do to \_) the value of his property. Other concerns are the positioning of the lift station, which will o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 9 ('--..." , I \...j be less than 100 feet away from his property. He stated he has a lot of questions about the sewer being shallow and possibly backing up into his property. Another concern is the traffic increase around his house and disruption of wildlife. When he took his permit out, he would have appreciated a notice of this then. There are other areas on the club property to place the units. The size of the units would create a wall instead of a nice view from his property to the golf course. He stated he did understand development and their concerns in wanting to develop the property, but if this does move forward, he would like some help with property values instead of being cut off. Mr. Jonathan Jasper, 14197 Orchid Street, stated he is in one of the two houses located closest to the development and he has grave concerns regarding this plan. He stated the lots and houses are larger than average for this community and they have a lot invested in where they are living. All the lots are substandard and smaller in size and width than the neighborhood and they are incompatible with the neighborhood. He stated that adding eleven small townhouses that are identical and built on slabs, takes away from that development and takes away the value of development. He stated there is concern with the length of the cul-de-sac and the overall plan of the City. He stated that what they end up with is eleven smaller houses on eleven smaller lots that are going to directly affect the value of their development. C) Mr. Jasper stated that the meeting last night was very informative and he appreciated it. He stated there were some specific concerns that he raised last night and one was neighbors were concerned about values. He stated he researched the cost of different golf courses with townhomes on them. He stated that townhomes on Majestic Oaks sells for $69 a square foot and if a basement were not included would sell for $139 a square foot on a better golf course. He stated he was told that this would enhance the value of the neighborhood because these would be high-end townhouses but he did not know how they could charge more for their townhouses than a better golf course could. He stated that based on his research today, they cannot meet the evaluations. He stated he did not buy his house only to have a development built by him on the golf course. He stated this was not the intention of the original developer on this property. C) Mr. Ron Vanelli, developer along with Mike Olsen stated they have been in the Golf Course and restaurant business since 1989. He stated that what they are trying to do with Woodland Creek Golf Course is to upgrade and improve the course. He stated they purchased the property this spring and he did not know what the development that was already there was like. He stated their long-term goal is to create a restaurant facility on this property. He stated there is expense involved with this because the original facility was never set up to be used as a restaurant/club house. He stated they wanted to make this a community beacon the community can look up to. He stated that after they were involved for a while, they started to look at the possibilities of upgrading the property and one option that came up was the possibility to put some houses on the golf course. He stated they have gone to considerable expense with surveying. He stated these are not townhomes; they are single-family villa style homes, directed at retired persons. Regular Andover PlannQ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 10 (~ ~! Acting Chairperson Daninger left the meeting at 8:00 p.m. Commissioner Kirchoff stepped in as Acting Chairperson for the rest of the meeting. Mr. Brian Johnson, Hawkins & Anderson, stated the Villas are laid out on the north edge of the golf course and the entrance that is used for the golf course would be improved and the street installed would be a City designed and installed project and so would the utilities under a public improvement project. The parking lot for the golf course will be improved along with the improvements to the roadway. The utilities, sanitary sewer and water way would hook up in the northeast corner of the existing city park and would require a lift station. He stated the City would design the lift station and install it. The design of the development is very compact for detached townhomes. The setbacks are ten feet to the living areas, six foot to the garage areas, similar to other developments in the City. The public street length is approximately 700 feet. He stated its features would be an association maintained development and the private property would be maintained by the association and there would be standards for building materials and treatments for the exteriors and treatments of the landscaping. He stated the drainage in the City park would be maintained by a pipe system and ponding which would be located to the south side of the project to control the flood elevations and increased runoff from this site. Commissioner Greenwald asked for this development to work out, would they need it to be eleven townhomes. He also asked if the street needed to be seven hundred feet in /-, length and where would the lift station be situated. Mr. Johnson stated with the design it ~J would be a single loaded street and there would be eleven units on the street. He stated the city park would never be developed, as far as he knew. The utility costs for this project and the addition of a lift station are unique to this site. In regards to the lift station and speaking to Mr. Haas, if a lift station were placed on the west side, it could be a permanent lift station and a temporary lift station placed on the east side, depending on future decisions by the City Council. Mr. Vanelli stated the driving number is the utilities. Ms. Sharon Harris-Vanelli, Edina Realty, stated in regards to the values of these homes, they would be looking at a unique buyer for these homes. She stated these homes would have a lot of nice amenities which would dictate a little higher price and there would only be a few of them so this would bring the demand up. She stated she did some research on townhomes around other golf courses in the area and they range from $275 to $325 in price. She stated she thought these homes would be very saleable. Commissioner Gamache asked if the homes that have sold are twenty-four foot on slab townhomes. Ms. Harris- V anelli stated most are slab on grade with no basements and most sold have only a two-car garage where these have three car garages. Commissioner Greenwald asked if they have done any valuation studies within the area. (~'\ Ms. Harris- V anelli stated that with the homes around the golf course, there is nothing like \._-) Regular Andover PlannQ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 11 r ----.. I i ',- ' this there so it is difficult to find a comparable for this but she thought the market would be there for them. Commissioner Greenwald stated one of the residents that came up would lose $30,000 value in property because no longer would his lot be on the golf course. Ms. Harris- Vanelli stated she did not know, but it is a possibility. Commissioner Larsen asked Ms. Harris- V anelli if she had done some comparables to Majestic Oaks or other golf courses. Ms. Harris- V anelli stated she had done some comparables on Majestic Oaks and other areas in the area such as Ham Lake. Mr. Byron Westlund, Woodland Development Corporation, stated the cost per square foot is not what Mr. Jasper indicated, he stated they are well over $100 per square foot and does not include the lot. He stated that Mr. Bednarz has done an excellent job and he called on him many times for advise on properties. He stated he is not for or against the development. He stated that the residents have issues about property values but the golf course owner also has the right to use their property as they see fit. Mr. Mike Olsen, part owner of the golf course, stated when they designed this unit, they took into consideration everything around the golf course. They tried to design a unit that would be compatible with all the houses around the golf course. He showed a sketch of -" the units proposed. He stated that with a well-designed landscape plan for all the units, it \ J will not look like a row of villas and they feel this would be a nice addition to the community. Commissioner Greenwald asked if this design is like the ones they developed in Forest Lake. Mr. Olsen stated it is not and this plan is original to this development. Commissioner Larsen asked where the proposed restaurant would be in respect to the plan. Mr. Olsen stated it would remain m the same clubhouse and they are looking at remodeling. Commissioner Greenwald stated he liked the looks of the units. Mr. Vanelli stated when they developed this, they did not look at the houses that were affected by this and they would like to work with the people in the development. ('\ U Ms. Vicky Larsen, 14229 Quay Street NW, stated she had some comments and one regarding property value. She stated they just refinanced their home and the appraiser told them that they did not need the full appraised amount because if they would sell the house, they would not have a problem because they have a lot on the golf course. She stated she did not understand why the City would make so many waivers to the current ordinances to allow this project. She stated that what she was told the maintenance building would be moved and there would be a service road put in and she wanted to know where it would go. Mr. Olsen stated it is proposed for the far west part of the property. He stated they have a twenty-foot easement coming out of the fifth addition of Regular Andover Plann~ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 12 o Woodland Development and they would propose to make a cart path for the workers to get to work because the maintenance building would be put in the far northwest comer of the property. Commissioner Gamache asked if this road was part of the proposal. Mr. Bednarz stated it was not but it would force the utility building to move because that is where the proposed structures are to go. Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the road would be tied into any outside streets. Mr. Olsen stated they would have to come off of 1 42nd and it is already set up for that. Ms. Larsen stated that this land is not all swamp and wetland because her house is back there. Ms. Larsen stated this is not a large golf course in that area and the proposed houses would be close to the fairway and she did not know if there were any regulations regarding this. She stated there is value in the fact that you live on the golf course and she. does not like the idea of a service road butting up to their property and she does not like all the variances proposed for the development of the houses. <J Commissioner Kirchoff stated this is a Planned Unit Development and with a Planned Unit Development, there is some give and take and the City has some authority with a PUD. Mr. Bednarz stated planned unit development is intended to get a better product than if they used a straight zoning district. He stated the City does have the ability to require amenities or landscaping or different features through the PUD that they would not have with a straight zoning district. He stated the purpose of Planned Unit Development is not to abuse the lot sizes to cram units in. Mr. Jasper stated the access road, the cart path is where all the neighborhood storm drains drain and his concerns are the golf course floods two to three times a year already and there will be a road with additional traffic coming off of 142nd Avenue. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to close the public hearing at 8:34 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Daninger and Squires) vote. Commissioner Gamache asked what is the area zoned. Mr. Bednarz stated the current zoning is R-4. Commissioner Gamache asked if there is a variance needed for the service road. Mr. Bednarz stated they would need to get a building permit to reconstruct the building in a different area He stated the City with a Commercial Site Plan review of the project could put conditions or require screening. Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the entire golf course zoned R-4. Mr. Bednarz stated this is correct. Commissioner Kirchoff stated in theory the entire golf course could be residential and turned into a housing development. Mr. Bednarz stated most of the golf course is in the flood plain so most of it could not be built upon. () Regular Andover PlannQ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 13 o Commissioner Greenwald stated he would never approve this based on the fact that road is over seven hundred feet and also because it is affecting residents values on their homes. He stated he would suggest they move the driveway east and he would recommend the developer look at two things, a shorter cul-de-sac and if there was any way to work with Mr. Bednarz so they could change the entrance and move it down a hundred feet. Commissioner Gamache stated as a golfer he hates the idea of having houses on a golf course but they do have the right to develop their property and he sympathizes with the residents. Commissioner Kirchoff stated the precedent has been set with the longer cul-de-sacs approved previously. Commissioner Greenwald stated that he did not think they ever approved a longer cul-de-sac when it affected the surrounding properties so much. He stated to approve a variance of that, knowing that they are affecting two citizens is tough. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he would agree with Commissioner Gamache on this. Commissioner Larsen asked as a citizen what would be their legal rights against the City. Commissioner Gamache stated if the plan were approved down the road, is there any legal recourse the citizens have against the City. Mr. Bednarz stated it would be a question for the City Attorney. o Commissioner Falk asked if they wanted to table this for more information. He stated he wanted to recommend they remove one structure to get the lots back to what they should be in an R-4 development. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that if they were going down to ten units, there would not be a PUD. Commissioner Greenwald asked if it increases the value to Andover by putting the homes in. Commissioner Gamache stated that it would bring more taxes into the City. Commissioner Kirchoff stated it could also bring in more revenue by having the restaurant in the clubhouse and may be a plus to the neighborhood. Commissioner Greenwald stated if it did not affect the residents around this, he would not have a problem with approving this. Commissioner Larsen stated she agreed and would like to have the development moved a little closer to the clubhouse. (J ' Commissioner Gamache asked ifby taking one home out of the plan, could they meet the R-4 requirements. Mr. Bednarz stated they likely could with a variance to cul-de-sac length. Commissioner Gamache asked if it would also take away the PUD on the property. Mr. Bednarz stated there would be no reason to pursue PUD review if the development were required to meet the R-4 standards. He stated that staff believes the lot size is appropriate for this type of development and that although the developer has used that reduced lot size to shoehorn in another unit, one unit could be removed and the space gained could be used to create a better development o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 14 t" -" . j Commissioner Kirchoff asked how long the golf course has been there. It was noted the course has been there fourteen years. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Falk, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. -' approving the Residential Sketch Plan for a single family development to be known as Woodland Creek Golf Course Villas located at 3200 South Coon Creek Drive and to remove a house from sketch plan and have the developer make the lots conform under the R-4 zoning district. Motion failed with 2-ayes (Gamache, Falk), 3-nays (Greenwald, Larsen, Kirchoff), 2-absent (Daninger and Squires) vote. Commissioner Kirchoff stated that by eliminating a lot, they could still be under the PUD. Commissioner Gamache stated he would like the developer to make the lots eighty feet wide and the only variance needed would be for the longer cul-de-sac. Mr. Thielen stated he is sitting in a house that cannot be sold and if the development happens, he may as well bum it down because he will be economically bankrupt if this goes through. Commissioner Falk asked Mr. Thielen to sit down. Commissioner Gamache stated what his informal advisement would be is to see if there is anything that can be done to make this work without affecting the two residents. Commissioner Larsen agreed. C)-- '- Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the November 6, 2002 City Council meeting. DISCUSSION: METROPOLITAN COUNCIL'S "DRAFT" 2030 BLUEPRINT. Mr. Bednarz stated the Metropolitan Council has prepared a "Draft" 2030 Blueprint for growth and development for the Twin Cities. The document has major policy areas that are being revised including: . Allocation of Forecasted Growth . MUSA Policy . Rural Growth Policies . Housing . Natural Resource Protection . ImplementationslBenchmarks Mr. Bednarz discussed the policy areas that were summarized in the Association of Metropolitan Municipalities (AMM) summary. o OTHER BUSINESS. Regular Andover PlannQ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - October 8, 2002 Page 15 / " J There was no other business. ADJOURNMENT. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to adjourn the meeting at 9: 15 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Daninger and Squires) vote. Respectfully Submitted, Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc. \ '-. ..J (.... '.)