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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 12, 2002 C) , '\ \.J o o ~. cu.LJ ~ ./1-~0-6;A. CITY of ANDOVER PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - NOVEMBER 12, 2002 The Regular Bi;..Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Acting Chairperson Dean Daninger on November 12,2002, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685. Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Acting Chairperson Dean Daninger, Commissioners Tim Kirchoff, Douglas Falk, and Paula Larsen. Commissioners absent: Chairperson Jay Squires, Commissioners Tony Gamache and Rex Greenwald. Also present: City Planner, Courtney Bednarz . Associate Planner, D. Tyler McKay Others APPROVAL OF MINUTES. October 8, 2002 Acting Chairperson Daninger stated on all the items, except for the last items when he left early, it was indicated in the minutes as nays for him and they should be positive votes. There was not any indication as to who stated the nay votes. Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Falk, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, O-present, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. PUBLIC HEARING: COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT (02-04) TO CHANGE THE LAND USE DESIGNATION FROM URBANRESIDENTIAL LOW DENSITY (URL) TO LIMITED COMMERCIAL (LC) ON PROPERTY LOCA TED AT 13730 CROSSTOWNDRIVE NW FORPINEWSKI BUILDERS. Mr. McKay explained that the Comprehensive Land Use Plan of the City of Andover was adopted in December of 200 1. The area that is proposed to be changed from Urban ! -'\ Residential Low Density (URL) to Limited Commercial (LC) is approximately 1.48 acres '0 in size. There are already a number of businesses located adjoining and nearby along Regular Andover PlannC) and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 2 r \ ,-..J Crosstown Drive in similar Business zones. This will not have a negative impact on the property values or scenic views of the surrounding area Commissioner Kirchoff asked what types of businesses would go into the building. Mr. McKay stated the developer did not have any idea what would go in there but they are looking at offices. Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Larsen, to open the public hearing at 7:05 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Ms. Shirley Kline, 13761 Northwood Dr. NW asked if the property goes commercial, the land next to this would like to go commercial in the next few years, could this be done. Mr. McKay stated the owner would need to file all the paperwork and go through the same process, but they have every right to do this. Mr. Bednarz stated that there is a minimum site size requirements for commercial districts and in this case, for limited business, it is 150 by 150 depth and width and he is not sure they have it there. Ms. Kline stated she thought he had enough because he owns more than one lot. Mr. Bednarz stated that if that is the case, he might be able to combine the properties but it would need to be looked at closer to determine. (J Motion by Falk, seconded by Larsen, to close the public hearing at 7:08 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Motion by Falk, seconded by Kirchoff, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the Comprehensive Plan Amendment (02-04) to Change the Land Use Designation from Urban Residential Low Density (URL) to Limited Commercial (LC) on Property Located at 13730 Crosstown Drive NW For Pinewski Builders. Motion carried ona 3-ayes, I-nay (Larsen), 3-absent (Greenwald, Garnache, Squires) vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 3,2002 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING (02-04) TO CHANGE THE ZONING DESIGNATION FROM SINGLE FAMILY URBAN RESIDENTIAL (R-4) TO LIMITED BUSINESS (LB) ON PROPERTY LOCATED AT 13730 CROSSTOWN DRIVE NW FOR PINEWSKI BUILDERS. 8 Mr. McKay explained that the applicant is requesting that the property be rezoned from Single Family Urban Residential (R-4) to Limited Business (LB) to allow a new professional office building adjacent to the Molly professional building. The external materials change would allow a proposal to incorporate the two buildings into one site with integrated parking. The color, style, and stone of both buildings would be similar. Regular Andover Plannr:) and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 3 (-) ,/ 1" " \..,) Mr. McKay stated as with all rezonings, one of the two following fmdings must be made to justify the rezoning: 1. The original zoning/land use was in error. 2. The character of the area or times and conditions have changed to such an extent to warrant the Rezoning/Comprehensive Plan Amendment. In this case the character of the area has changed through the installation of municipal utilities, increased traffic along Bunker and Crosstown and resulting commercial development near the intersection. Other elements to be taken into consideration are: 1) The effect of the proposed use upon the health, safety, morals and general welfare of occupants of surrounding lands. 2) Existing and anticipated traffic conditions including parking facilities on adjacent streets and lands. 3) The effect on values of property and scenic views in the surrounding area 4) The effect of the proposed use on the Comprehensive Plan. There are already a number of businesses located nearby in similar Limited Business (\- ') zones. Since the subject property is located just off of Bunker Lake Boulevard, and J directly at Crosstown Drive, this is a location along major roads, which, would accommodate the amount of increased traffic and the parking demands. These issues will be addressed during the commercial site plan process. This will not have a negative impact on the property values or scenic views of the surrounding area The rezoning must be contingent upon a change to the Comprehensive Plan from URL to Limited Commercial. Motion by Falk, seconded by Kirchoff, to open the public hearing at 7:08 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, I-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Mr. Bednarz stated they have received a letter in opposition to this. Mr. Bednarz summarized the letter. Motion by Larsen, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 7:09 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, I-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Commissioner Falkasked if the applicant has met with the residents regarding this land. Mr. Steve Pinewski, Pinewski Builders, stated the property owners talked with the neighbors prior to the application and everyone seemed to be in favor of this except for the neighbor to the north. He stated he has not personally talked to the neighbors. (' 1 Mr. Bednarz stated that staff received a letter in opposition to the request. He "_j summarized the letter and noted that the Planning Commission received a copy as well. ) 0 Regular Andover Plan~ng and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 4 I \ l Commissioner Kirchoff stated he was curious if there would be any opportunity in the back to soften the landscaping or putting up a fence. Mr. Pinewski stated they do not like the idea ofa fence because of high maintenance. They were looking at putting in blue spruces. He stated the proposal would be to line the property lines with blue spruces, which makes a good buffer year round. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he thought this was an appropriate change. Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Daninger, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the Rezoning (02-04) to Change the Zoning Designation from Single Family Urban Residential (R4) to Limited Business (LB) on Property Located at 13730 Crosstown Drive NW for Pinewski Builders. Motion carried on a 3-ayes, I-nays (Larsen), 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 3,2002 City Council meeting. VARIANCE (02-11) VARIANCE TO ORDINANCE 8, SECTION 6.02 FOR SIDE SETBACK TO ALLOW ADDITION TO EXISTING HOUSE FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 2860 135TH A VENUE NW. '" j Mr. Bednarz explained that the applicant is seeking approval of a variance to reduce the side yard setback for a proposed addition to the existing house. Mr. Bednarz stated the applicant intends to finish the existing garage to add additional finished square footage to the existing house. A new garage with living space above would be added to the west side of the existing garage. The living space above the garage would be 1.5 feet below the 10-foot side yard setback for houses. The addition would extend to 8.5 feet from the side property line. Mr. Bednarz stated staff researched previous variance applications and found that a number of variances to the side yard setback have been granted in the past. Typically these variances have been for decks, house additions or detached accessory buildings adjacent to streets on corner lots. Four variances have been granted for garage or house additions from interior property lines. Mr. John Olsen, 2860 135th Avenue NW presented the proposed addition to the existing house. Commissioner Kirchoffasked if the neighbors have objections to this. Mr. Olsen stated they did not have any objections. (-~ '. ,./ o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 5 l '\ '\,_J Commissioner Larsen stated in the letter he indicated one neighbor would not object, what about the others. Mr. Olsen stated that the neighbor this addition would be closest to does not object. Motion by Larsen, seconded by Kirchoff, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the Variance (02-11 ) Variance to Ordinance 8, Section 6.02 for Side Setback to Allow Addition to Existing House for Property Located at 2860 135th Avenue NW. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he saw this addition as a border between two houses and not as an infringement on the setback. He stated he thought this would be an asset to the neighborhood. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated in the Resolution, it should state 135th Avenue and not Lane. Mr. Bednarz stated this is true and would be noted and corrected. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 3,2002 City Council meeting. , \ IJ PUBLIC HEARING: RESIDENTIAL SKETCH PLAN FOR A TOWNHOUSE PROJECT FOR CREEKSIDE HOMES ON PROPERTY LOCATED AT 14220 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD NW. Mr. Bednarz explained that the Planning Commission is asked to review a sketch plan for a residential development containing 24 townhouses on an approximately 4-acre property. The proposed development would require planned unit development review to provide alternative development standards. Mr. Bednarz discussed the criteria with the Planning Commission. Mr. Bednarz stated the City Council would need to determine if they would accept a medium density development on the subject property. Mr. Dave Harris, Creekside Homes stated they have had many different sketch plans for this project and they finally came up with a plan that would be marketable and address the issues that were raised by the neighborhood. He presented the proposed sketch plan to the Commission. Motion by Falk, seconded by Larsen, to open the public hearing at 7:30 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. r~\ Mr. Joe Kabezinksi, 2351 Uplander Drive NW stated he had a memo from Mr. Bednarz \,~ and he never received one of these, only one neighbor received this and he wanted to Regular Andover PlannQ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 6 / "\ , \.J know why. He also stated that the property was owned by Mr. Windschitl and it was zoned as light commercial and he tried to get the property rezoned to build homes on the property and was denied, so how can Mr. Harris build townhomes. He stated with the new school in the area, there is already too much traffic in the area and if these townhomes are allowed to be built, the traffic will be unbearable and no one will be able to get out of the neighborhood. Mr. Bednarz stated the City sends out notices to residents within 350 feet of the property and the City also publishes the hearing notice in the Anoka Union and posts a sign at the site. Ms. Becky Joiner, 14194 Quinn Street NW stated her property abuts up to the property behind them and she took the time to go around the neighborhood to have people sign a petition. She stated the property is zoned low density and Mr. Harris is trying to put in 24 units and they would like to see the City only allow 16 units on the property as a maximum. She stated the problems with traffic are not only on 141 st but also on l42nd. These streets are dead-end streets. She stated with additional traffic, 1 42nd Avenue would be a parking lot in the morning. She stated they would like to see the City go along with them and only permit 4 houses per acre. She stated they would like to see the property kept as single-family housing. <J Ms. Bobbie Langner, 141 st Avenue stated she had not received a notice either and this affects her because she travels the roads around there and right now the traffic is bad. She asked if the proposed housing is going to be Section 8 housing because they have these in the area now and there is a lot of trouble with drugs and police calls. Mr. Harris indicated these would not be Section 8 housing. Mr. Larry Chavis, 2140 1 42nd Avenue NW stated when he heard about the proposed project, his concern was the additional traffic. He stated there is a lot of speeding on the road right now and it is impossible to get out of the neighborhood at times. He stated the crossings at this time are unsafe and he does not think adding more traffic to an already problem area is wise. Mr. Ed Bob, 2139 1 42nd Avenue asked if the exit for the street coincide with l42nd Lane. Mr. Bednarz stated as drawn, it did not. Mr. Bob stated it produces an extra traffic problem and a major problem he sees with the sketch. He stated he does not object to low density development of this plat. He stated he believed this would reduce some of the home values in the area He stated single-family homes would look better in the neighborhood. Ms. Judy Keesar stated her concern is children walking on the road to school and the increased traffic in the neighborhood. She stated more traffic would eventually hurt some .r-\ kids. '-....~) Regular Andover PlannC;~ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 7 /- ,~ "-) Mr. Richard Anderson, 2104 1 42nd Avenue NW stated his neighborhood is a friendly neighborhood where everyone knows each other and this proposal is in the wrong area and their neighborhood is not the place for the townhome development. Ms. Pat Albreight, 2080 1 42nd Avenue NW stated the children catch the bus on l42nd and with added traffic this would be a danger to the children and she feels this development is unneeded in the neighborhood. Motion by FaIk, seconded by Kirchoff, to close the public hearing at 7:48 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Mr. Harris stated the questions relating to traffic, cannot control the traffic coming out onto Crosstown but with their plan, they are proposing a sidewalk along the development so children will not need to walk in the street. He stated the townhomes would not be section 8 housing and would be owner occupied townhomes with the starting price at $190,000 up to $235,000 in the neighborhood. He stated they had another plan that put six units onto l42nd but staff did not feel this was an adequate plan. He stated that the City might be able to look at a signal at the intersection. He stated Mr. Rademacher owns the land and they have a purchase agreement on the property and the only way they were able to reduce the density was to upgrade the style of unit. He stated a small number of single-family homes would not make any economical sense for a builder or the seller. (, 'J Commissioner Kirchoff asked if this would be an association. Mr. Harris stated this was true. Commissioner Kirchoff asked if staff looked at the possibility of having two entrances, one off of 141 st and one off of l42nd. Mr. Bednarz stated they did look at this and there is an existing access off of Crosstown Boulevard that the County would like to see closed. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated the City makes all efforts to post the public hearing and the City has a policy to send out all the mailings and they do advertise in the Anoka Union. He also stated he would encourage anyone who sees illegal activity in the area to contact the Sheriff. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated he did not know about any information regarding Mr. Windschitl owning the property. Mr. Bednarz stated he did not know a great deal about the history beyond the past ten years when Mr. Rademacher bought the property. He stated the City did a neighborhood business study that evaluated the site and provided a recommendation for it to be developed as residential. Acting Chairperson Daninger asked if there was any information on traffic changes to the area Mr. Bednarz stated that Crosstown Boulevard is a County roadway and a County public improvement project would need to bring the improvements. Traffic is going to (~) increase according to new traffic counts and the roadway is in need of improvement. He -~ stated the City is in the final phases of updating a transportation plan, which calls for ;'- '-- - ) () 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 8 improvements at key intersections throughout the City. He stated there needs to be a funding source to pay for the improvements and they will continue to look for the funds for improvement. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated this is a sketch plan and the Commission makes recommendations to the developer and City Council and then the next step is this sketch plan moves forward to the City Council for further discussion and a decision. He stated this goes through many more steps before becoming final. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated the Commission knows that traffic is an issue. Commissioner Larsen stated that given the traffic issues, she would feel that low density is more appropriate. She understands there would be some fmandal hardships but it was originally zoned that way and should remain that way with all the concern from the neighborhood. Commissioner Kirchoff stated the developer would not have access to Crosstown so they would be limited in that aspect. He asked how many single family houses they could put in there if they put in a cul-de-sac. Mr. Bednarz stated they could probably get seven R-4 single family residential lots in there. Commissioner Kirchoff asked what if the road was a through street. Mr. Bednarz stated they could put the roadway through but there is not sufficient depth for R-410ts on both sides of the road. ./ Commissioner Falk stated he would prefer this to be a townhouse development rather than commercial. He stated he agreed with the residents that there should be a limit of sixteen units instead of twenty-four. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he would prefer to go half way and have ten twinhouse buildings instead of twelve. Commissioner Larsen asked if there would only be seven residential single-family homes. Mr. Bednarz stated that if it remained R-4, this is likely all that would fit. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated he proposes low density and would encourage the low-density plan. He stated that development allows things to happen such as parks and trails and they have a Parks and Recreation Commission that look at this. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 3,2002 City Council meeting. I~-"'\.. I j -- '\ ',-~ o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 9 PUBLIC HEARING: RESIDENTIAL SKETCH PLAN FOR A DETACHED TOWNHOUSE PROJECT TO BE KNOWN AS "CITY VIEW FARM" LOCATED AT 13313 ROUND LAKE BOULEVARD NW. Mr. Bednarz explained the Planning Commission is asked to review a sketch plan for 'City View Farm', an urban residential development containing seven detached townhouse lots on an existing 1.34 acre property. The proposed development would require planned unit development review to provide alternative development standards from the typical R-4 requirements. Mr. Bednarz discussed the criteria with the Planning Commission. Mr. Bednarz stated that due to the fact that access can only be provided from 133rd Lane NW, the development potential of the property is limited. If the property were developed under the R-4 Zoning District standards and with a typical public street the result would be three single-family lots. These lots would likely be double frontage lots with backyards facing Round Lake Boulevard. This is not desirable as the view entering Andover could be of fences or possibly cluttered backyards. If the street were designed as a frontage road to allow the three houses to face Round Lake Boulevard, the access at 133rd Lane would need to be dangerously close to Round Lake Boulevard. In either scenario, the project would make poor use of the land, would hold down the value of the ~._~) land, and may be cost prohibitive as a result. Mr. Bednarz stated the proposed project is a better alternative. With attention to detail during Planned Unit Development Review, the project can become an attractive addition at this entrance to the City. Mr. Bednarz stated there was a neighborhood meeting last week. Mr. Mike Bahn, 13313 Round Lake Boulevard discussed the proposed residential sketch plan to the Commission. He stated there are some buildings on the property that are not worth renovating. He stated there would be seven detached townhomes, single family that would be association maintained. Commissioner Falk asked how units with detached garages would sell. Mr. Bahn stated he wants to have a backyard courtyard that is useable and away from the road. He stated the detached garages may be an issue but there are only seven units. Falk asked if there is a market out there for detached garages. Mr. Bahn stated he thinks that people would buy them. Commissioner Larsen asked how many townhomes are in the White Bear project. Mr. Bahn stated that on the same size property, there are eight with detached garages in the back. (~) '\ \_./ o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 10 Commissioner Falk asked if the private drive is sufficient for the area. Mr. Bednarz stated typically all access would be provided from a public street, but that type of scenario would eliminate the development potential of the property. Commissioner Falk asked if this would be a safety issue. Mr. Bednarz stated emergency access is a concern and there is a turnaround between the last two garages in the sketch. It would need to be modified to accommodate the boiler plate turnaround and they are exploring with the City of Coon Rapids the potential to connect the private drive with the private drive in the townhomes to the south. Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the connection would only be for emergency use. Mr. Bednarz stated this is true. Commissioner FaIk asked with a private drive, would the association take care of the snow removal and maintaining the roadway. Mr. Bednarz stated the City would not maintain anything south of 133rd Lane and would need to be maintained by the association. Motion by Larsen, seconded by Kirchoff, to open the public hearing at 8: 17 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. (J Ms. Grace Mary, 13385 Willow Street asked if there is going to be a traffic light on 133rd Lane to accommodate additional traffic. Mr. Bednarz stated the County went through the area with striping and modifications and he thought this was all they will see at the present time. Ms. Mary stated it is disturbing because there will be a lot more cars. Motion by Kirchoff, seconded by Larsen, to close the public hearing at 8:19 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Mr. Bahn stated this project may attract bus line people and the detached garage may encourage the owners to ride the bus. Commissioner Kirchoff stated he thought there was a project in Brooklyn Park with the same type of housing and he liked the design of those. Commissioner Larsen asked how many acres this is. It was noted it was 1.34 acres. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated they are always concerned with private roads and he would encourage the City to look to Coon Rapids for a through street for emergency purposes. He stated he liked the plan as he sees it. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 3,2002 City Council meeting. o o Regular Andover PlanS;~ and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 11 r , \.~ PUBLIC HEARING: DISCUSS PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO ORDINANCES #109 AND #230 REGULATING DIRT BIKES IN THE CITY OF ANDOVER. Mr. McKay explained that a number of Andover residents have requested changes to Ordinance #109 (Regulating All Terrain Vehicles and Snowmobiles) be amended to also regulate the use of dirt bikes and to increase the regulation of A TV's in the City of Andover. There have also been other complaints by Andover residents about the noise, dust and fumes associated with the racing of dirt bikes, A TV's and other vehicles on and off tracks on residential lots. The City Council directed this to be discussed by the Planning Commission and requested for more information in regard to the Ham Lake ordinance, the A TV Taskforce and a confirmation of the number of complaints filed to the Sheriffs office. Mr. McKay discussed other cities Ordinance's with the Planning Commission. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated Mr. McKay mentioned nineteen complaints, does he know how many different addresses this is from. Mr. McKay stated the sheriff's report he received does not have a lot of information. Motion by Falk, seconded by Larsen, to open the public hearing at 8:30.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. / \ \,J Mrs. Mary Hilke, 18030 Uplander Court stated she is one of the residents requesting dirt bikes be included in the current Ordinance. She read a letter to the Commission and presented her viewpoint. Mr. Tom Dancheck, 15584 Raven Street stated they feel Ordinance 109 needs to be modified to address a setback distance from the property line and residents and needs to address the repetitive operation of dirt bikes on trails and private properties. He stated they are not trying to ban motorized vehicle use in the City, they are trying to create a buffer. He discussed his issues and viewpoint with the Commission. Mr. Pat Roberts, 18030 Uplander Court stated he would like to add that in talking to Anoka County Sheriff's Department, the noise ordinance is unenforceable as written. Andover's snowmobile and ATV Ordinance is written for public property. This means that a resident can do whatever they like on their own property with no regard to their neighbors. He read from the Ordinance and asked if this could be changed to include dirt bikes and A TV's for public property also. (J Mr. Brian Flute, 15667 Raven Street stated there were a couple of issues he would like to clarify in regards to the track described by Mr. Dancheck. He stated the track was built for safety and curves so it slows the traffic down. The issue arose because neighbors refused to communicate and work with each other. He stated after understanding of the issue, the amount the kids have been allowed to ride has decreased and the rules for riding have changed and been followed. He stated he has a problem with people that :_) o (J Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 12 want to change because the City is changing. He stated he has a list of neighbors that agree with him. He stated some of the numbers forbid 2.5 acres from riding. He stated they want to make it clear that by the petition, they want to reserve the right to operate on their property. He stated the majority of people moved out to Andover to do be able to ride. He cautioned the Commission to look at the lots and not just the dimensions. Mr. Jim Linahan, 665 l48th Lane stated he owns two and a half acres and moved to Andover from North Minneapolis because he wanted to get away from all the regulations. By putting the setback restrictions in place, the residents cannot do anything on their property. He stated if the setbacks were enforced, this would force people to own more la.Qd, which is impossible in Andover. Mr. John Swoosher, 1433 l6lst Avenue NW stated his concern was finding out the setbacks seemed so excessive and unreasonable. He stated he does not have a dirt bike or A TV or snowmobile. He stated his concern is seeing what seemed to be stunning figures for the change in the Ordinance. He stated residents need some type of resolution other than the sheriffs' department. Mr. Dan Barrett, 17271 Partridge Street NW stated they moved to Andover in 1993 from Minnetonka for the added acreage. He stated they have not had any complaints or police calls. He stated he feels sympathy for what Ms. Hilke is going through but he hates to (,j see the entire City affected by a couple of people who do not follow the rules. Mr. Dan Benedict, 15638 Raven Street stated he lives next door to Mr. Dancheck. He stated they invited the entire City Council over to see the trail they have complained about and Mayor Gamache showed up. He stated they rode the trail for about forty minutes and was amazed. Mayor Gamache stated this was one of the safety trails he has seen. He stated the trail is completely lined with trees.and there is not an issue that someone could cross over the property lines from the trail. He stated their four wheelers have never been started at 8:00 a.m. He stated the noise ordinance issue is great and if anyone of the vehicles exceeds the Cities limits for over a minute, they should be made to change the vehicle to be remufflered. He stated there are three other neighbors that would like to connect the trail together to create a larger trail to ride. He stated he feels for Mr. & Mrs. Hilke and stated that something needed to be in regards to their issue. C) Mr. John Stong, 2333 1 55th Lane NW stated they live on a lot that is 200 by 400 feet and if the Ordinance changed to 300 feet, it would make their yard unusable. He stated they have no complaints from neighbors when riding their A TV's. He stated he cannot hear his neighbors running their A TV's but occasionally they do hear a dirt bike running in the distance constantly. Ms. Patty Howard, 2119 1 56th Avenue stated she understands the issues with dirt bikes but some of the families have gone out of their way to make sure riding their A TV's does not disturb their neighbors. She stated the neighbors are concerned about what their kids are doing. She stated they are living in a rural area and the kids generally ride with care. o 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 13 / '\ , } ~_ .I She stated as a landowner, they have a right to do what they want on their property as long as no laws are broken. If there needs to be limitations, she understands that but she does not want privileges taken away. She stated she does not want to see the rights of the landowner taken away. She stated the kids deserve the opportunity to ride recreational vehicles as long as the rules are obeyed. Mr. Dancheck stated he did not propose the 300-foot setback, staff proposed this. He suggested a minimal setback. He also did not state there was continuous use. He stated that comparisons to leaf blowers and lawn mowers are a distinct difference between these types of operations versus optional riding vehicles. Mr. Flute stated he wanted to clarify that on the trails they ride, the kids cannot speed through where they are going. They have never crossed the property line and the kids riding know what they are doing and the safety issues. He stated the track was designed for safety. He stated this is not a racetrack and if the kids are caught racing or timing, the machines are put away for a long time and it is taken very seriously. Mr. Roberts stated that they have to appreciate the people that have moved to Andover for a little peace and quiet. Ms. Hilke stated that as snowmobilers, they went through this a few years ago and she / " thinks this is something that is happening and as communities grow, they have to look at \J what is best for the community and she urges everyone to become active to open up some of the forests trails. Motion by Falk, seconded by Larsen, to close the public hearing at 9:23 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Commissioner Kirchoff stated the issues that certain parties are experiencing are real. He stated he couldn't support adding new regulations everywhere. He asked ifhe could drive a snowmobile on his property south of 161 st. He stated the noise ordinance should be enforced. He asked if they have a noise ordinance. Mr. McKay stated they do but the Sheriffhas stated that by the time they get to the property, the activity is done so it is hard to enforce. He stated the Sheriff's Department does not consider this an issue. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated they should have staff look at what would make for a more enforceable noise ordinance because there is a concern on how to enforce this. Commissioner Falk stated he does not want restrictions but it is an issue between two neighbors. They need to take this issue as a whole for the entire community. C) Commissioner Larsen stated she did not think it is just a one-neighborhood issue. She stated they need to be sensitive to the people who moved here for some peace and quiet and the noise is the issue and she would like to find a solution for this. ') 0 Regular Andover Plann~ng and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 12, 2002 Page 14 /'- . ,-.,,; Acting Chairperson Daninger stated because of a few incidents, this comes to the City's attention and they need to look at this as a whole. He believes the responsible riders in the area will comply with the current Ordinances. He stated he is not in favor of a buffer zone at this time. He stated they needed to look into checking the noise ordinance and how to help the law enforcement enforce this. Mr. McKay stated he would talk to the law enforcement on how to enforce this. Commissioner Larsen stated she would be in favor of some type of buffer zone. Commissioner Falk stated it would be nice for neighbors to try to work things out for themselves because he cannot see a buffer zone as being the solution. Acting Chairperson Daninger stated the direction is to look more at the noise and how to enforce this. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 3, 2002 City Council meeting. OTHER BUSINESS. Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items. '..J Mr. Bednarz mentioned that the City would be holding an open house for the Rural Reserve Study. This will be held on November 20, 2002 at 4:30 p.m. ADJOURNMENT. Motion by Falk, seconded by Larsen, to adjourn the meeting at 9:36 p.m. Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Greenwald, Gamache, Squires) vote. Respectfully Submitted, Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc, f- '\ \_~ ,;i