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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 25, 2003 ü ~~~ C I T Y o F ~ í d-Q-03 NDOVE (J 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100 . FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - NOVEMBER 25,2003 The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting ofthe Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Acting Chairperson Kirchoff on November 25,2003, 7:03 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Commissioners present: Commissioners Tim Kirchoff, Tony Gamache, Rex Greenwald (arrived at 7:34 p.m.), Dean Vatne, Jonathan Jasper and Michael Casey. Commissioners absent: Chairperson Daninger. Also present: City Planner, Courtney Bednarz Associate Planner, Andy Cross Others ,r) 0 APPRO V AL OF MINUTES. November 12, 2003 Motion by Gamache, seconded by Casey, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Daninger, Greenwald) vote. PUBLIC HEARING: COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT (03-08) TO . CHANGE THE SEWER STAGING FROM 2015-2020 TO 2000-2005 FOR PROPERTIES LOCATED AT 15773,15803,15827, AND 15955 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARDNW. Mr. Cross explained that the applicant is requesting a Comprehensive Plan Amendment to change the Comprehensive Plan's sewer staging classification for four contiguous properties located on Crosstown Boulevard. Mr. Cross explained the properties are designated to receive municipal services in 2015- 2020 time frame. Municipal water and sewer is presently available as a result of the Constance Comers subdivision. The applicants are requesting the Comp plan be amended to allow the properties access to municipal sewer and water between 2000- ~ 2005. r' (J U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes -November 25,2003 Page 2 0 Mr. Cross stated City Engineering staff has indicated that the sewer pipes that would be extended to serve Fire Station #3 have sufficient capacity to allow the connection of all of these properties. Availability of the sewer pipe would serve Fire Station #3 would put it in close proximity to these other properties. This would enable them to connect without involving other property owners in the area that may not be ready to proceed at this time. Mr. Cross discussed the information with the Commission. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked if the fire station would require sewer and water for that property. Mr. Cross stated that was correct and it was a request by the Fire Chief to have that property brought up to 2000-2005. Commissioner Gamache asked if this was a request or was it needed by the fire department. Mr. Bednarz explained it would be advantageous for them to have access to City utilities. Commissioner Vatne asked if there was sufficient capacity to allow a connection across the road. Mr. Cross stated this was true. Motion by Vatne, seconded by Gamache, to open the public hearing at 7:07 p.m. Motion () carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Daninger, Greenwald) vote. \----- There was no public input. Motion by Casey, seconded by Vatne, to close the public hearing at 7:08 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Daninger, Greenwald) vote. Mr. Bednarz explained he had a phone conversation with an adjacent resident and his concern was urban development adjacent to his acreage property and he wanted to share with the Commission his desire to see if the urban development could be developed at the central part ofthe property and if the perimeter could be left in some type of acreage or larger lot form. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff noted this information to be added to the public hearing. Commissioner Gamache asked if they would be seeing a plat. Mr. Bednarz stated that if these items move ahead they will be seeing a plat as the next step in the process. Commissioner Vatne asked if approved, would this change the Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Bednarz stated this would be process like any other Comprehensive Plan Amendment and would need to be approved by the Met Council. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Vatne, to recommend to the City Council approval of , ' Resolution No. _, approving the request for an amendment to the Comprehensive / '\ Plan. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Daninger, Greenwald) vote. \J 0 () Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 3 C ) ,~ Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 2, 2003 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING (03-10) TO CHANGE THE ZONING FROM SINGLE FAMILY RURAL RESIDENTIAL (R-1) TO SINGLE FAMILY URBAN RESIDENTIAL (R-4) FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 15827 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD NW. Mr. Cross explained this rezoning will allow the development of a 15.22-acre parcel that can now get sewer service as a result of the Constance Comers subdivision. Mr. Cross stated the City's sewer staging, as drafted in the Comprehensive Plan, has this parcel slated to receive sewer service between 2015 and 2020. With the development of the Constance Comers subdivision, sewer service will be available next year. This rezoning would have taken place when the area received sewer service in 2015, but is sought now with the early arrival of the sewer utility. Mr. Cross discussed the item with the Commission. ~l Commissioner Gamache stated in the staff report, it showed 15.22 acres, but the map showed 43.5. Mr. Cross stated they are only looking at rezoning the Thomas Miller Property. The entire area requesting a change to the sewer staging plan is 43.5 acres. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Jasper, to open the public hearing at 7: 12 p.m. Motion I carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Daninger, Greenwald) vote. Mr. Mark Lipske, 629 15th Avenue, showed where his property was on the map and explained his understanding was some other neighbors sold out and he believed that this was not going to be the only land wanting to be rezoned. He thought the surrounding properties would also request the same. He stated he was concerned about the progressive development in Andover and he wondered if they could save part of Andover as a natural type of area and instead of rezoning urban, require it be at 2.5 acres per parcel so they do not have to clear cut everything. He showed on the map what he would like to see. He noted he would like to have a buffer of trees around the perimeter of the property to shield the development from adjoining properties. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff explained that the details on how the development would layout would be available for review as a part of a future sketch and plat. It was his understanding there was not any development plans for the site at this time and it is strictly a rezoning request. 0 Mr. Troy Gamble, Anderson Engineering of Minnesota, explained he was at the meeting on behalf of the applicant, Lorent Development. He stated that at this time they do not 0 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 4 .~ ( ) have a detailed plan. When they do get a piece of land that is well wooded, it is to the developers' advantage to look at perimeter screening and ways of custom grading lots to make it more appealing to the buyer and the residents in the area as well. He stated the points made are duly noted and they plan on bringing a plan in to the City in the next month. Motion by Casey, seconded by Gamache, to close the public hearing at 7:28 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, 2-absent (Daninger, Greenwald) vote. Commissioner Gamache asked what the implications were for bringing the sewer across the road and is it inevitable the entire area will get rezoned R-4 because of the available sewer and water or is it still feasible for these lots to be developed as 2 1/2 acres with septic and wells. Mr. Bednarz explained the City would not accept a rural plat in terms of coming in with just 2 ~ acre lots because it is all within the MUSA. He stated it is all guided to be urban development at some time in the future. If this is rezoned to R-4, 11,400 s.f. is the minimum lot size and they could make some lots larger but he thought it was unlikely they would be 2.5 acres. Commissioner Vatne asked if these were larger than \14 acre, would they still be serviced by sewer and water. Mr. Bednarz stated this was true. "--j Commissioner Jasper asked if this issue came about because the owners wanted to develop these properties or because the sewer was going to be coming in for the Fire \- ' Department. Mr. Bednarz explained the sewer became available when the Constance Comers Development went in. The brought sewer under the railroad tracks and down through the property to the northwest. At this point sewer crossed Crosstown Boulevard and became physically available to the properties and the Fire Station site. Commissioner Vatne asked if the time line for development of these properties was originally out ten to fifteen years but because utilities came in sooner, property owners asked for it to be brought in sooner. Mr. Bednarz stated this was correct and showed a graph and explained the different sewer stages and adjustments that have been made as a result of properties not developing in the stage they were initially assigned. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff explained this is only a plan and may change. Commissioner Jasper asked if rezoning was inevitable if development of the properties were to come about. Mr. Bednarz stated this was true. Commissioner Greenwald arrived at 7:34 p.m. Commissioner Vatne explained the importance of the drawing of the MUSA line, once the line in the past was expanded out, served as the destiny for the properties therein, (J rural designation going from an R-l, splits could not take place any longer, similar to the Rural Reserve which they have talked about a number of properties in, basically locked 0 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 5 ---, \ , ) those so they could not make them into 2 ~ acres. Mr. Bednarz stated this was ... , essentially correct, especially for the Rural Reserve. The Council allows a little more flexibility in the general area that is undeveloped in the MUSA in that you can still do a rural lot split once every three years but you could not come in and divide up a forty acre piece in ten or twelve 2 Y2 acre lots. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Casey, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the rezoning request subject to the conditions of the resolution. Commissioner Vatne stated they heard from the developer regarding the concerns with the trees and the landscape. They have seen other developers come in with similar concerns so he thought this was something that was being addressed. Mr. Lipske had a good idea with a buffer zone and he thought there was some merit to that when the developer is laying out some of these tracts to give some consideration that way. He explained the trade off is the value of land that they will be looking at in all cases so it will be a balancing act but it is an interesting suggestion and he would encourage this to be taken forward for the City Council also. Commissioner Gamache asked if he understood this correctly, they will not see a plat on this property before the end of the year so the chances of having the developed will not -~ happen until the spring of2005. Mr. Bednarz explained it may be sooner based on what '. they heard from the developer. ", . Commissioner Gamache asked if this needed to be heard before the end of the year for this area to be developed in 2004. Mr. Bednarz explained it depended on if the developer would construct the streets and utilities or if the City would do this. If the developer would construct their own streets and utilities, they would not be subject to the same requirements and time limits. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked if it would be under that scenario where they could see development in 2004. Mr. Bednarz stated if they went with a public improvement, they would need to have a preliminary plat be approved by January 31, 2004. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 2, 2003 City Council meeting. r .-.." " ¡' -,' 0 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 6 C) PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT (03-14) TO ALLOW LAND RECLAMATION/SOIL STORAGE ON PROPERTY LOCATED AT 2748 161sT A VENUE NW. Mr. Bednarz explained that the applicant is requesting to store up to 15,000 cubic yards of dirt on the subject property. Bringing material in excess of 400 cubic yards onto a property is considered land reclamation and requires a Conditional Use Permit. The material will be generated as a part ofthe Round Lake Boulevard Reconstruction Project. Mr. Bednarz explained a permit is required to allow the City to review the type of ; material, the route and method oftransportation, measures to prevent displacement from wind, hours of operation, length of permit, site restoration, etc. Mr. Bednarz discussed the staff report with the Commission. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked if this would be an annual permit or would it be a three year permit. Mr. Bednarz stated this would be inspected annually and could be brought back to be revoked if not in conformance. The Commission could also make the permit an annual renewal permit. Commissioner Gamache asked how large would be a 15,000 cubic foot pile. Mr. cJ Bednarz stated a typical truck can haul ten yards of material. Mr. Rocky Lindberg, Forest Lake Contracting, stated the pile will be rounded off in the back and will not be seen from the road. Commissioner Gamache asked if they would be coming in from 161 SI. Mr. Lindberg showed on the map the road they will use to access the site. Commissioner Vatne asked if this would mainly be used for the Round Lake Boulevard reconstruction. Mr. Lindberg stated it would be along with different construction sites in the area. It is to benefit the people in the area also. Acting Chairperson Kirchoffasked if this would be gravel and soil. Mr. Lindberg stated this would be top soil only without any debris. Commissioner Jasper asked what was on the property directly to the south. Mr. Bednarz stated this was all farmland. Mr. Bednarz noted a question brought up by the Fire Chief that there was a natural gas line running across the property and he wondered if Mr. Lindberg gave any consideration to the crossing location. Mr. Lindberg stated they knew about the pipe and they will have this inspected and work with the gas company regarding this. !~ \J ( I ) .,~ \. .' Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 7 ~-j Chief Winkel stated his concern was ifthey will be driving all winter across the line and pound the frost line down on the pipeline, so they may need to work with the gas company closely so they will not disturb the gas line. Mr. Lindberg stated they will be in contact with the gas company before they do any crossing over the pipeline. Commissioner Gamache asked how doing something like this affects the Ordinance regarding compost sites. Mr. Bednarz stated this would not be the same situation because they are talking about top soil, not a compo sting area. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Casey, to open the public hearing at 7:51 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. There was no public input. Motion by Vatne, seconded by Gamache, to close the public hearing at 7:52 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Vatne asked for verification of the resolution, under the first whereas, it notes a two year period there, whereas it notes three years down below. Mr. Bednarz stated the requested permit is for 3 years. :,' ) Acting Chairperson asked if everyone would be fine with a three year permit as stated '-----" and an annual review. The Commission agreed. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Vatne, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the proposed Conditional Use Permit for a three year period and subject to the conditions of the attached resolution and that they get something in writing from the gas company as to what the gas line will handle and approval from the gas company. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 2, 2003 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AMENDMENT (03-15) TO ALLOW PRESCHOOL WITHIN THE EXISTING BUILDING AND TO EXTEND THE TIME ALLOWED FOR EXISTING TEMPORARY CLASSROOMS FOR THE FAMILY OF CHRIST CHURCH LOCATED AT 16045 NIGHTINGALE STREET NW. Mr. Bednarz explained expansion of the use ofthe church for a preschool requires an amendment to their existing conditional use permit. The existing temporary classrooms were to be removed this year as indicated in the attached Resolution R242-99. Attached 0 letters from the applicant provides the details of the proposed preschool and justification for the requested extension of time allowed for the temporary classrooms. u 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 8 ~-) ; ; Mr. Bednarz stated Staff has inspected the property with the applicant and finds that with ¡ minor alterations, the existing structure can be modified to meet building and fire code requirements for the preschool. The school will be open Monday through Friday and will not conflict with weekend church services. With a maximum of 40 children attending classes at anyone time, the existing parking areas will be sufficient to satisfy parking needs. 0 Mr. Bednarz discussed the information with the Commission. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked what the zoning for this was. Mr. Bednarz stated it , was zoned R-1. i ! Commissioner Greenwald asked how many acres was the site. Mr. Bednarz estimated it to be around 6 acres. Commissioner Gamache asked how many portable buildings they were using. Mr. Bednarz stated it was only one building. Motion by Vatne, seconded by Greenwald, to open the public hearing at 7:58 p.m. (~) Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. ! Mr. Jay Squires, representing Family of Christ Church, showed pictures of the area to show how the building sits on the property and explained the layout. He explained the impact ofthe portable would not be great. He noted that the building is not visible from the roadway and they have not heard any negative feedback from the neighbors. He stated the portables today are a lot different than what they used to be. Mr. Squires stated the City has always had a good practice to have finite period permits so everyone once in awhile people have to check in with the City to make sure everything is going fine. He stated the one thing he is concerned about is the proposed resolution that indicates the extension ofthe permit would expire ifthe church were sold. They are in the process oftrying to sell it to another church and the church is a specialized piece of property that they have come to realize is not highly marketable as other uses. The prospective purchasers are other churches and ifthey would come in, they would use the portable for the same uses. Mr. Squires stated all the churches they have talked to think the portables are an asset and it would be important to them to utilize them. Another practical aspect is it hurts the marketability ofthe church. He would ask that the proposed resolution not include the last part of item four after the year of 2008. He explained they have more than enough parking for the preschool and he does not foresee any types of traffic problems. ! '\ V 0 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 9 ( '\ ""'---- ..: Commissioner Jasper asked if the church moved to Ham Lake. Mr. Squires stated this was true. He stated they are currently worshiping at the new site but they are currently using the old site for Sunday school. Commissioner Jasper asked if they have all the classrooms at the new building, why they would need to still use the portable. Mr. Squires stated they still use the old site for some of the activities and for the youth group because on the new site, they do not have the room at this time. Commissioner Greenwald asked who made five years the time limit on the permit. Mr. Squires stated the church is requesting 5 years. Commissioner Greenwald asked if the church planned on being out of the church site within five years. Mr. Squires stated it would be their hope that they would be able to integrate all oftheir uses on the new site if they found a buyer for the property. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff stated when the portable was put on the site, there seemed to be a permanency by putting in the concrete piers. Mr. Bednarz stated typically churches and other buildings considered to be commercial in format would be of some type of masonry construction. He stated this was always viewed to be a temporary structure. ., Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked if this has been done in the past where they could sell \ , a permitted piece for a time so ifthis was to be sold, the new buyer would be buying a '-,' permit until the permit time would run out. Mr. Squires stated the Conditional Use Permit runs with the land so the purchaser ofthe property step into the shoes of the property owner in terms of the permit and that it is why it is important to the church to be able to market the facility with at least some duration left on the temporary permit so they have some ability to do that, recognizing they have an obligation to come in front ofthe City in a couple of years and to realize that the permit may not be there after that. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Vatne, to close the public hearing at 8:16 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Jasper stated he was in support ofthis. His initial reaction was he was more comfortable with what staff had proposed with regard to it sun setting on the sale and he would not be opposed to doing something in regards to sixty days after the sale. If a church buys this they will now that it is approved now and if they use it in the same manner and come in for an extension, they may be approved again. He stated that while a church is the most likely buyer, they do not know if a church actually will buy this. He explained he would prefer to say the permit lapses sixty-days after the sale. I Commissioner Gamache stated he agreed but instead of lapsing, they could have the permit transferable with the City Council's approval. (--') "---../ () ~-) Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 10 \ , / Commissioner Greenwald agreed with both of the Commissioners but ifthey had a potential buyer they would need to have some facts so he could see that if they sell this to a church, the permit will continue. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff agreed. Mr. Bednarz explained that the permit, once approved, runs with the property. Mr. Squires stated Commissioner Jaspers' concerns were valid because he would feel the same way but he also thought Commissioner Greenwald's idea would be a good solution. Commissioner Vatne suggested they have the parcel inspected within sixty days after the sale ofthe church by the City to make sure the ongoing use ofthe facility is within the intention ofthe temporary structure. He thought they should grant a five year window on the life of the usage but the new buyer upon the purchase, sixty days after, would be subject to a review. Mr. Squires stated he has a problem with that idea because it leaves that issue yet to be determined at someone's discretion and they need certainty. It is important for them to know that if another church came in with a language so long it remains a church use or a substantially identical use to the existing use, the permit would remain to be valid and would be much more important language the church could have. Commissioner Vatne stated his concern was the upkeep the buyer may provide as well and that was the reason of his proposing this the way he did. Commissioner Greenwald stated the problem with what Commissioner Vatne is saying is they are changing codes and if the church is sold in a few years, they may not allow ~ -' temporary structures at all and a building inspector may not allow it. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked if conditional use permits were required to be reviewed annually. Mr. Bednarz stated they can be reviewed at any time they are out of compliance with the terms ofthe permit. Commissioner Jasper stated they have different ways of doing what he suggested they do and is there one way preferable to another. Mr. Bednarz stated in either scenario, it gets to what was his concern in the first place, that by putting the additional wording in there, to give the potential buyer the feeling that they have more than a temporary structure. They are getting away from the original intent of what the structure is there for. Mr. Bednarz stated in this scenario, his only request is the City is allowed to review the use ofthe temporary structure. Commissioner Greenwald stated he did not like either one of the suggestions because in a couple of years, the churches will have different church boards and this will get missed. Commissioner Jasper stated sales like these do not close instantly, they take months to close and he does not think this would scare off a potential buyer. Commissioner Greenwald stated that if they do sell the building to a church for an identical use, why would this need to be reviewed again. Commissioner Jasper stated he did not disagree if .~."\ they sold it to a church. -~ I 0 Ü Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 11 - " / \,_J Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the proposed preschool and time extension for the temporary classrooms subject to the conditions of the attached resolution making item 5, item 6 and to add item 5, conditional use permit will stay intact until November 2008, if the sale is to a church. Commissioner Gamache stated he thought Mr. Bednarz has some valid concerns regarding temporary structures in the City whether it be a church or school and he thought they needed to look at putting some wording in somewhere as to what a temporary structure is and how long temporary structures can be around because they will be renewing the ones at Oakview for the next thirty years, if they do not do something like that. Commissioner Jasper stated he thought they would be renewing the temporary structures for the next thirty years regardless. Commissioner Vatne stated he thought it was still important, regardless of whom they sold the property to, that the property should be inspected to make sure the temporary structure is being used appropriately. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, I-nays (Vatne), I-absent vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 16,2003 .---, City Council meeting. ( ) ~ PUBLIC HEARING: LOT SPLIT (03-0S) TO CREATE A NEW RURAL RESIDENTIAL LOT FROM PROPERTY LOCATED AT 161S0 MAKAH STREET NW. Mr. Bednarz explained that the property owner is seeking approval to divide their five- acre double frontage lot into two single-family rural residential lots. Mr. Bednarz noted the existing home will continue to have access onto Makah Street while the new lot will have access onto 16151 Lane where the street ends in a dead end at the edge of the property. Mr. Bednarz discussed the information with the Commission. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked when they add the 90 foot radius to the cul-de-sac, how much do they have left to build on. Mr. Bednarz stated this does remove a significant amount of buildable area from the west central portion ofthe property to provide the turn around. . Commissioner Vatne asked what the end of 16151 Lane would look like. Mr. Bednarz C) stated staff is recommending a temporary size cul-de-sac be considered. The applicant would rather construct a hammerhead. 0 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 12 (-~) Commissioner Kirchoff asked if the turnaround could be pulled back to the west to reduce the impact on the property. Mr. Bednarz stated this can be done but only to a limited extent because only 60 feet of right-of-way exists for 161 st Ave. Commissioner Vatne asked ifthere were other hammerhead style turn around in the City at this time. Mr. Bednarz stated there are a couple of areas, but not many. Commissioner Vatne stated there was some commentary about the impact on plowing. Has there been any feedback on the impact of plowing on a hammerhead turn around and would this ease the burden. Mr. Bednarz stated he believed all of the comments pertaining to either plowing or emergency vehicles were the necessity to make the additional movement in backing up to turn out ofthe turnaround as opposed to just turning around in the cul-de-sac. Commissioner Greenwald asked if they would access the lot from 162nd Lane. Mr. Bednarz showed on the map the area in question and explained what was constructed there. Motiolt by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to open the public hearing at 8:42 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. ,-- '\ Mr. William Bush, 4613 161 st Lane NW, explained he was at the meeting of the lot split i \ of the lot they were talking about off of 162nd Lane and the concerns at the meeting were \...j that there were established homes on both sides of the property like this one and at that meeting, it was finally decided there would be a sixty foot cul-de-sac taken off the south lot and sixty feet of a possible north lot to give the 120 feet needed. He explained he built out there in 1972 and they had dirt roads. He explained that when the roads were graded and paved the ditch was blocked and now water backs up in the ditch. He does not understand how in a rural residential area that is two and a half acres, how a street can be taken out ofthe two and a half acres, this still gives them a two and a half acre lot. Mr. Bednarz stated there is a difference between platted right of way in which the City or County physically owns the property and a street easement which gives the City or County the ability to build an improvement such as a road and to have the public use it, but the property owner still owns the underlying property, which is the same way Makah Street is put in. Mr. Bush stated as far as the cul-de-sac goes, it is to the applicant's benefit to be splitting this off and t<;> encroach onto existing properties is not acceptable. The hardship as such should be born by the party splitting the property, not by the parties that are existing. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked ifthis property moves water out of the entire area. Mr. Bednarz stated he thought water was retained in the front of the properties. He explained they had a discussion last week with Mr. Bush and he followed that up by talking with the City Engineer and this type of an improvement, if the cul-de-sac is the , C) 0 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 13 / -, , f "J desired choice, would need to be engineered and designed to make sure the run off is not going to overload any existing situation out there. Mr. Bush stated the other problem is the cul-de-sac would be longer than what is allowed in the City. He stated the cul-de-sac would be better than what they have now. His other concern is where they do flair this out to the south, it takes two to three jogs to turn around on that streèt, is that widening been abandoned. Mr. Bednarz stated he thought the existing partial turnaround would be eliminated in its entirety, and the new turnaround would improve the existing situation. Mr. Bush asked where the private utilities would come into the property and ifthere would be an easement. Mr. Bednarz stated there would be an easement necessary and the utilities would be provided from the existing right of way. Mr. Bush stated there are not any power lines at all and his property is the last one on the line. Mr. Bednarz stated this could be brought down the right of way and could be accomplished. Mr. Gary Cotton~ 16150 Makah Street NW, stated he would like to stick with the hammerhead because the Fire Chief approved that particular tùm around. He wondered how much of this would come onto his property and affect the sale of the property. Mr. Darren Peterson, 16151 Lane, stated there is a drainage problem, especially in the ~) spring. The road floods out and there is a drainage issue. There is a culvert on his neighbors' lot but he does not know where it goes. There is not a ditch on his lot. Commissioner Vatne asked ifthere were curbs on the street to help divert the water. Mr. Bednarz stated there were not. Mr. Bush stated there currently are not cÙtbs out there and he would not want to be imposed with the cost of the street for the benefit of this property. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff stated this was not part of the proposal. Motion by Vatne, seconded by Gamache, to close the public hearing at 8:59 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes~ O:-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Jasper stated when he read through the report, the Fire Department has said the hammerhead is ok so he would be comfortable with the hammerhead. ,The Ordinance calls for 93 foot cul-de-sacs and the proposal is for an 80 foot temporary cul- de-sac. He, stated they have standards and he thought the standards should be observed one way or another. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff concurred because acul..,de-sac to be born by this one property eats into the property and there are six lots that feed onto the adjacent street so there are seven homes. 0 , 0 () Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 14 C_) Commissioner Greenwald stated item two in the Resolution would need to be reworded and item number one says the applicant is required to dedicate a ten foot drainage and utility easement around the perimeter of both properties so they are taking into ! consideration the drainage issue. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff stated he thought that is a requirement of almost any lot. i Commissioner Greenwald asked ifthe applicant was aware of the non-conforming pole barn. Mr. Cotton stated he was. Commissioner Greenwald asked in item six, the lot split would be subject to the sunset clause, he wondered what this meant. Mr. Bednarz stated they had one year to record this at the County. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff stated the hammerhead minimizes the amount of paved surface for runoff. Commissioner Gamache stated the hammerhead is hard to plow and , takes a while to plow as opposed to a cul-de-sac. Commissioner Gamache asked how long the cul-de-sac would be and does it meet the five hundred feet Ordinance. Mr. Bednarz stated the street is beyond 500 feet. Commissioner Gamache stated they would have to give approval of a long cul-de-sac to be beyond the length of what is in the Ordinance. Mr. Bednarz stated what is proposed is , \ to improve a non-conforming situation and they could add a variance to the length of the '....-'.J' J cul-de-sac because they are extendìng the street. Commissioner, Jasper stated anything would be an improvement to nothing at all. Commissioner Vatne asked for clarification on what Commissioner Jasper stated. He asked that by City Code, a full size cul-de-sac is what is being proposed. Mr. Bednarz stated that what is proposed is less than a typical permanent cul-de-sac. Commissioner Vatne asked what the recommendation is. Mr. Bednarz stated the recommendation is an 80 foot paved cul-de-sac with an additional easement for utilities around it. Commissioner Jasper stated this recommendation came fröm the Andover Review Committee. He wondered what this group was. Mr. Bednarz explained the group involved in reviewing items. Commissioner Vatne stated his personal feeling is he does not like the hammerhead and would have to default back to the recommendations ofthe ARC committee. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff stated the ARC's preference is the cul-de-sac. Motion by Jasper, seconded by Greenwald, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the proposed lot split with two changes, paragraph two would be changed to the applicant is required to dedicate a roadway easement to allow the construction of the hammerhead turnaround as proposed by the applicant and a 0 paragraph be added to allow a variance to the five hundred foot cul-de-sac length limitation based on the fact that the creation of the cul-de-sac is not the applicants doing. . f / ) ~.J '- -./ Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 15 ':_-) Commissioner Greenwald asked if the variance rules applied if this was a hammerhead. Mr. Bednarz stated they would because they are still extending the street. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, I-nays (Vatne), I-absent vote. Commissioner Vatne stated he thought this was important to provide consistency with the recommendations and he thought there was still plenty of space to build on the land even with the cul-de-sac. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 16, 2003 City Council meeting. VARIANCE (03-10) TO ALLOW A NEW HOUSE TO BE CONSTRUCTED ON A NONCONFORMING LOT LOCATED AT 3131169TH LANE NW. Mr. Bednarz explained the subject of the property contains a dilapidated structure that needs to be removed from the property. The applicant would like to construct a new home in its place. r~\ Mr. Bednarz discussed the report with the Commission. \, -) ; Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked ifthere was a septic system on the property. Mr. Bednarz stated there was. He stated a new septic system would need to be installed. Commissioner Gamache stated the City established this as an acceptable piece of land before 1970 and he would have to see this as a hardship because the owner ofthe lot had nothing to do with the way this is platted out. Ifthey do not grant the variance the land will be unusable so they might as well put a new house on this and take down a house that is unsafe. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the proposed variance subject to the conditions ofthe attached resolution. Commissioner Vatne asked if they approve the variance, would the builder be able to come in with a building permit proposal to be in conformance with code. Mr. Bednarz stated ifthe variance is approved, the builder would apply for a building permit and would need to be in conformance with City Code. Commissioner Jasper asked ifthey should have a sunset provision on this. Mr. Todd Stenvick stated he is the builder and the plan is they will tear down the house as soon as 0 they get approval from the City Council. The reason they have not down this until now is because of the time of year, if they would tear this down before they get approval, the . Regular Andover Planni¥and Zoning Commission Meeting CJ Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 16 í- '. '0 hole will freeze and they will incur additional excavating costs. He stated the well and septic is being abandoned for new ones. He stated they have already gone through inspections with the Department of Health and had asbestos tests done. He stated the goal would be to get a basement in before the end ofthe year. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 2, 2003 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: LOT SPLIT (03-06) TO CREATE A NEW RURAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY FROM EXISTING RURAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY LOCATED NORTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION OF CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD NW AND NIGHTINGALE STREET NW. Mr. Cross explained the City of Andover has submitted an application to divide into two . lots the 28 acres adjacent to the property located at 15211 Nightingale Street NW. Mr. Cross explained the survey indicates how the property will be divided. The property being split off is the easterly 8 acres. The City of Andover currently has a contract to ,~J purchase this 8-acre lot from its owner, Ken Slyzuk. The new lot will join the City's property to the West and serve as an expansion to the Public W ~rks Department. The purchase is part of the City's 2002-2006 Capital Improvement Plan. CIP Project 03- 41960-06 is dedicated to the purchase of new land that will allow Public Works to expand and maintain their facilities together on one complex. The additional land will be used for a salt storage building, material storage, recycling center, and future facility addition. Mr. Cross discussed the report with the Commission. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked if the salt would be stored indoors. Mr. Cross stated ¡ it would be. Commissioner Jasper asked if the City was going to raise options to acquire the entire property. Mr. Cross stated that was true. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to open the public hearing at 9:21 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Tom Booths, 15336 Lynette Street, asked where on the map, the property split was going to be. Mr. Cross stated the parcel is being split from the entire parcel. Mr. Booths asked if the improvements they were planning on doing affect Lynette Street. Mr. ~) Bednarz showed on the map what will be happening to the property. . u U Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 17 r" ',----) Commissioner Jasper asked if the City intended on extending Lynette Street or do they intend to leave it as is. Mr. Bednarz stated he has not seen a final plan for the build out of the area but from what he has seen, it does not contemplate changing the cul-de-sac. He stated that someday the property may have access to Nightingale but this would be over a course of fifteen years. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff asked ifthere was a complete cul-de-sac at the end of the road. Mr. Booth stated there was. Mr. Bednarz stated if anyone lives on a cul-de-sac, nest to undeveloped land, it is a temporary cul-de-sac and has been posted as such within the last year. Commissioner Jasper stated there were conflicts to the maps in the staff report. One was showing the split would be in the middle of Lynette and the other did not show that, which the correct map is. Mr. Bednarz showed the original plat and where the split would take place on the plat. Mr. Steve Bonfields, 15312 Lynette Street explained he is on the end ofthe cul-de-sac and he needs to know the plans. Mr. Bednarz stated this was important to note that there will be a staged acquisition ofthe property to the west. The City has reached a purchase agreement for all ofthe property but at this point, only the first eight acres, or about 355 feet west ofthe existing water treatment facility would be required. ,-\ U Commissioner Gamache stated at this time, the City does not ha,ve plans to vacate the cul-de-sac. Mr. Bonfields stated they were also concerned about the buildings that will be coming in and the noise. Mr. Cross stated there has not been any official site plan for the area but the Public Works will move in slowly and this is in the very early stages. Acting Chairperson Kirchoff stated there will be a preliminary plat proposal and the residents will be notified ofthose items also. Commissioner Jasper stated it may give the residents some comfort that the City is buying the land; a developer will not come in and put a bunch of houses in. Mr. Tom Booth stated his concern is that Lynette Street may eventually be continued to Crosstown Boulevard and the residents would not like that because it would become a mainly used road. Commissioner Greenwald and Acting Chairperson Kirchoff stated they did not think the City would do this because of the curve in the road. Mr. Bednarz stated he did not think they would continue Lynette Street into the City Hall Complex. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Greenwald, to close the public hearing at 9:33 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. ! o . ! Regular Andover PlannQ and Zoning Commission Meeting 0 Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 18 /- "- <_J Commissioner Gamache stated he understands the residents concerns because temporary cul-de-sacs sometimes do become through streets but he would like to reassure the residents that the City will do all that they can. He did not think it was the City's intention of expanding any of the roads at this time. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to recommend to the City Council , approval of Resolution No. _, approving the lot split request subject to the conditions , of the resolution. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. ; Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 16, 2003 City Council meeting. PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR DONOHUE CREEKSIDE ADDITION TO CREATE TWO NEW URBAN RESIDENTIAL LOTS LOCATED AT 2733 BUNKER LAKE BOULEVARD NW. Mr. Bednarz explained the Planning and Zoning Commission is asked to review a preliminary plat for Donohue Creekside Addition, a three lot suburban subdivision. Mr. Bednarz explained Tim and Virginia Donohue wish to subdivide their 2.9 acre single-family urban residential lot into three single-family urban residential lots. Their i r,\ \_J existing home will remain on wharwill become Lot 3, while th~ newly created lots will be similar in orientation and size to those found in the adjacent development. Mr. Bednarz discussed the information with the Commission. Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to open the public hearing at 9:38 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. , There was no public input. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Jasper, to close the public hearing at 9:38 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Commissioner Jasper stated it seems like every preliminary plat they get has some exception to the rules and this one does not have any so he would approve it. Motion by Jasper, seconded by Greenwald, to recommend to the City Council approval of Resolution No. _, approving the proposed plat subject to the conditions of the attached resolution. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the December 16, 2003 /~, City Council meeting. ,~) . - () 0 Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes - November 25, 2003 Page 19 ( , . .... ' , OTHER BUSINESS. Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items. Mr. Bednarz mentioned that they may have a lighter agenda so they will have time to discuss what happened throughout the year. Commissioner Greenwald asked if the December 15, 2003 meeting with the City Council was confirmed. Mr. Bednarz stated it was. ADJOURNMENT. Motion by Gamache, seconded by Greenwald, to adjourn the meeting at 9:41 p.m. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent vote. Respectfully Submitted, ~ ;" ) Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc. -~ ( ~ ---