HomeMy WebLinkAboutJuly 27, 2004
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1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
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Andover Planning and Zoning Commission
Meeting Agenda
July 27,2004
Andover City Hall
Council Chambers
7:00 p.m.
I. Call to Order
2. Approval of Minutes - July 13,2004
3. Variance 04-04 to vary from rear yard setback requirements for porch
addition at 13542 Poppy Street NW.
4. PUBLIC HEARING: Residential Sketch Plan for Kimberly Oaks, a rural
residential development located east of Verdin Street at 165th Avenue NW.
:J 5. PUBLIC HEARING: Residential Sketch Plan for Silver Meadows West, a
rural residential development located southeast of 7th Avenue and l65th
Avenue NW.
6. Other Business
7. Adjournment
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PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - JULY 27,2004
The Regular Hi-Monthly Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order by Chairperson Daninger on July 27, 2004, 7:02 p.m., at the Andover City
Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present: Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Tony Gamache,
Rex Greenwald, Dean Vatne, Jonathan Jasper and Michael
Casey.
Commissioners absent: Commissioner Tim Kirchoff.
Also present: City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Planning Intern, Chris Vrchota
Others
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APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
July 13, 2004
Motion by Gamache, seconded by Casey, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion
carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Kirchoff) vote.
VARIANCE 04-04 TO VARY FROM REAR YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENTS
FOR PORCH ADDITION AT 13542 POPPY STREET NW.
Mr. Vrchota explained that the applicants are requested a 6-foot variance to the rear yard
setback requirement to allow the construction of a 12xl2 sun porch.
Mr. Vrchota discussed the staff report with the Commission.
Commissioner Vatne stated in reading through the staff report, there were three points
that are made to help support the hardship and he wondered if they were points that were
brought up by staff or the applicant. Mr. Vrchota stated they are points from the
) applicant.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - July 27, 2004
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Commissioner Jasper stated he felt there was nothing unique with the property other than
they want to put on a room that is bigger than allowed by the zoning ordinances to create
a hardship. He did not think it is a bad idea but does not meet the legal qualifications for
a VarIance.
Commissioner Gamache concurred with Commissioner Jasper and stated the arguments
that are put out there for being a hardship on the property, does not warrant the variance
to reduce the setback.
Chairperson Daninger stated he also agreed and he felt the hardship was not there for this
item.
Mrs. Evans stated this is their retirement home and now that they put all of the stuff in the
park, they need to place something there to obtain privacy and if they do not get that, they
will have to move.
Mr. Ken Evans stated at the front of their house, there is Terrace Park along with the
entrance and they hear everything at Terrace Park. He thought this was a hardship
situation by putting up with the noise, dust and the City is now planning on putting in a
basketball court which will incur more noise. He stated almost every time there is a
/' -', game, the people that won honk their horn on their way out. He hoped the Commission
<~ saw his reasons and they could get a permit to build the porch.
Commissioner Vatne asked if the park had been there for quite a while. Mr. Evans stated
it has been there and the park is used even in the winter time.
Chairperson Daninger explained the Commissions role in deciding the items presented at
the meeting.
Commissioner Vatne stated there are some points brought up that are critical to the
homeowners wanting to put an addition up. He stated it was important they were
consistent with their decisions.
Chairperson Daninger stated if the park is creating an issue, the City needs to know that
and maybe something else needs to be looked at to remedy the situation.
Motion by Gamache, seconded by Casey, to recommend to the City Council denial of
Resolution No. _, denying the variance to vary from rear yard setback requirements ¡
because no hardship could be found to grant the variance. Motion carried on a 6-ayes, 0-
nays, I-absent (Kirchoff) vote.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the August 4, 2004 City
/' ) Council meeting.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes -July 27,2004
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PUBLIC HEARING: RESIDENTIAL SKETCH PLAN FOR KIMBERLY OAKS, A
RURAL RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT LOCATED EAST OF VERDIN STREET
AT 16STH AVENUE NW.
Mr. Bednarz explained that the Planning Commission is asked to review a sketch plan
containing ten rural residential lots.
Mr. Bednarz discussed the staff report with the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Gamache stated he counted nine lots and an outlot. He wondered if they
were planning on making Outlot A buildable. Mr. Bednarz stated they were, as it is
drawn on the plans, it would be provided access on the cul-de-sac and would be a lot.
Staff would require this to be labeled with a lot and block number as currently designed.
Commissioner Gamache asked how long the permanent cul-de-sac was. Mr. Bednarz
stated it was approximately 1000-1100 feet long. Commissioner Gamache asked if the
Fire Chiefhas given him any feedback regarding the length. Mr. Bednarz stated the Fire
Chief has indicated they are most interested in the street being extended to the north
providing a second access in the future and would be a part of the review in the future
development.
(-" Commissioner V atne asked if there had been any proposals on the property to the north.
~\._-~ Mr. Bednarz stated there has been interest in what is going on with this development but
nothing as far as development.
Commissioner Jasper asked if the cul-de-sac was measured from Uplander or Verdin to
make it one thousand feet in length. Mr. Bednarz stated it is measured from the center
line of Verdin Street, which would be the fIrst opportunity to have two entrances.
Commissioner Jasper asked how long it was fÌom Uplander to the cul-de-sac. Mr.
Bednari stated it was roughly half of that distance.
Commissioner Gamache asked if, and or when the temporary cul-de-sac became a
through street on Uplander Street make this a legal cul-de-sac. Mr. Bednarz stated it
would be, if not at five hundred feet, it would be very close.
Commissioner Vatne asked if there was any possibility to loop the street back in along
Verdin Street similar to the development to the west. Mr. Bednarz stated this was how
the development was initially designed in a sketch plan, however due to the Counties
spacing guidelines since Silver Meadows was developed, that is not an option.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Gamache, to open the public hearing at 7:23 p.m.
/) Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Kirchoff) vote.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes -July 27,2004
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Mr. Dale Howard, 16178 Raven Street, stated he was the developer of the new
development and the temporary cul-de-sac once it is a through street the cul-de-sac will
be less than 500 feet and will be legal. He stated people to the north are interested in
developing their property but not at this time. People to the south would like maybe have
some of that in their future rather than extend the lots for bigger lots. He stated Anoka
County, as of December 2003 have a requirement of a quarter of a mile access onto a
major road. The Silver Meadows plat was probably ok before the requirement came into
effect. He stated on the turn lane, after three houses, there has to be a turn lane to the
development.
Motion by Jasper, seconded by Gamache, to close the public hearing at 7:26 p.m.
Motion carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Kirchoff) vote.
Commissioner Gamache stated he was looking at this plan and it looks like some of the
secondary and primary septic areas are in the easement. He wondered if this was
allowed. Mr. Bednarz stated drain fields are not allowed in easements and they have
made some modifications to the sketch plan to make sure that is not the case.
Commissioner Greenwald asked what the guidelines were for temporary cul-de-sacs. Mr.
Bednarz stated it does meet the Fire Department guidelines for turn around and they have
, '\ a standard sixty foot right of way and then there is a temporary street easement that is
'J taken outside of that which is abandoned once the street is extended.
Chairperson Daninger stated on the ghost plat to the north, is that the ideal spot for the
street to come through. Mr. Bednarz stated the developer made the sketch plan to the
north. Towards the center of the horseshoe design is a wetland. There has been some
effort made to split the street around the wetland to achieve lots along both sides. This is
one of a dozen ways the property to the north could be developed.
Commissioner Jasper stated when he looked at this, he did not like this but it is the only i
way to layout the road without cutting through the middle of the wetland and get lots out
of this. The cul-de-sac to the east confonns because they have allowed other
developments to have longer cul-de-sacs because they are temporary and the reason it is
longer is because of the temporary road to the north and he did not see any other way for
the developer to do this.
Commissioner Vatne stated there was a change to the Counties regulations regarding this.
They changed the rules in terms of accesses. He thought it would be nice to have
consistency amongst the County that would allow them to join the roads and have a
structure that is laid out in somewhat a consistent fashion. Mr. Bednarz stated the County
has taken a more proactive role in reviewing these developments.
~J Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the August 4, 2004 City
Council meeting.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - July 27, 2004
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PUBLIC HEARING: RESIDENTIAL SKETCH PLAN FOR SILVER MEADOWS
WEST, A RURAL RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT LOCATED SOUTHEAST OF
7TH A VENUE AND 16STH A VENUE NW.
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Mr. Bednarz explained that the Planning Commission is asked to review a sketch plan ¡
containing 17 rural residential lots.
Mr. Bednarz discussed the information with the Commission.
Commissioner Jasper asked if there was a reason why they did not have a connection
going to the south of the development so this could end up not being a permanent cul-de-
sac. Mr. Bednarz stated there is some wetland to the south and the area is already
somewhat developed already with lots fronting on Valley Drive.
Commissioner Gamache asked if they would have to grant variances on the lots going
along 7th Avenue because of double frontage. Mr. Bednarz stated they would not. Due to
the fact that it is a County arterial road, double frontage lots are permitted in that
situation.
'\ Motion by Gamache, seconded by Vatne, to open the public hearing at 7:38 p.m. Motion
\J carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Kirchoff) vote.
Mr. Jerry Foss, New Brighton, Developer of Property, stated they did considerable I
background after talking to Mr. Bednarz because he suggested bringing the road out on
the south to 7th Avenue and he suggested they talk to Ms. Jane Rose at the Highway i
Department. He stated they had two discussions with Ms. Rose and for safety reasons, !
they do not want any roads to come out onto 7th A venue because of the rise and fall of
the road and they were concerned with possible accidents. They were opposed to any
roads coming out onto 7th Avenue.
Mr. Foss stated they also have a fairly large wetland to the north and it did not make
much sense to try to bring a road through there and also wetland and houses to the north.
He stated the option they had was to put in a cul-de-sac. He noted the development is
about sixty-six acres and could be up to sixteen lots so the density factor would be four
acres per lot. On the cul-de-sac, there will actually only be two houses. The other
challenge was the property was bordered by three County Roads. He stated there is a
possibility of taking back I 65th A venue and making that a City road but that was not
official. ;
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Mr. Bud Holst, 4276 16Sth Avenue, stated the discussion of possibly giving 165th Avenue
back to the City, he would like to know what the ramifications would be of the property
/ '\ owners on the roadway. He thought there were 17 lots showing on the map and where
\...~ they are also showing a potential ghost route for a road going through his property to
further land to the east, which are mostly residential at this point so he stated he would be
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes-July 27,2004
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interested to know how this would work and what the ramifications would be. Mr.
Bednarz stated they do not have a definitive answer regarding I 65th A venue. He stated
the City will be asking for additional right-of-way on the south half of 1 65th Avenue,
whether or not the road is turned back to establish a full 60 foot half right of way.
Commissioner Greenwald stated as the City is developing and growing when it becomes
a City street they have control over the speeds. If they can bring the road back into the
City, they can start controlling some of the statutory speed limits for safety reasons.
Mr. Bednarz stated there are 17 lots as proposed and lot 13 is a little tight and would need
to be shown on a preliminary plat whether they can establish a home and septic sight
there and meet the Cities requirements. Right now they are showing that as a buildable
lot.
Mr. John Upenshire, 5230 I63rd Lane, stated he is at the meeting with a relative who
owns property on the northwest comer of the development and they talked a little about
access from 165th. He wondered what the provision is or how much land would be
required for an exit and egress for the proposed road coming in from 165th. Mr. Bednarz
stated the proposed road coming into the development will be adjacent to the property
line. He stated this road would not affect the adjoining land owners' property.
/- "\ Mr. Upenshire asked what affect a turn lane would have on their property. Mr. Bednarz
\.,_/ stated in the event the County would need additional land to provide a turn lane into the
development, that would either need to be provided within the existing right of way or the
developer would have to approach them in an attempt to purchase whatever property
would be needed to provide that improvement.
Mr. Upenshire asked what building setbacks would be required. Mr. Bednarz stated on a
rural situation, the setback is forty feet for a rront building setback. For a detached
building, it can be as small as five feet providing there is not a drainage utility easement
or other topography issue. For a home, it would be ten feet from a side property line.
From a County road, typically fifty feet.
Motion by Gamache, seconded by Casey, to close the public hearing at 7:58 p.m. Motion
carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Kirchoff) vote.
Commissioner Vatne asked in taking a look at the layout, there was a statement made
regarding the wetland and that a portion of the wetland is proposed to be filled at the west
end of the southern street to allow access to two lots. He knew a lot of this would tie into
the recommendation by the Watershed District but generally, isn't it common that if there
is fill in one area, there would be an allowance for the wetland to expand in another area
of the development. Mr. Bednarz stated that was correct. The southern cul-de-sac, they
'\ would need to fill a small portion of wetland to achieve the end of that cul-de-sac and two
I lots. The type of wetland, amounts of fill proposed will dictate what kind of mitigation
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Regular Andover Plan~~ and Zoning Commission Meeting C)
Minutes -July 27, 2004
Page 7
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,-j efforts are needed. They will need to compensate for the area that is filled if they are
allowed to do that.
Commissioner Vatne asked if there is any tree cover in any parts of the proposed
development. Mr. Bednarz stated there is some tree cover on the majority of the upland
area. He showed an aerial map of the area.
Commissioner Greenwood asked why they did not connect the road through the
development which would eliminate some of the problems. He remembered reading in
the Anoka County report about the possibility of temporary access onto 7th A venue. If
they leave it like it is, is there no way to connect the roads. Mr. Bednarz stated it is not
feasible or possible to connect the wetlands from the north to south. There may be some
way to do this through an extensive effort.
Commissioner Vatne stated they would address some type of tree preservation when they
review the preliminary plat but he wanted to mention this to the developer. Mr. Bednarz
stated they will get more into that as part of the preliminary plat.
Mr. Foss stated they developed Silver Meadows off of Verdin Street and there were some
trees there and they spent a lot of money placing pine trees around the development.
They did take down some of them but they also transplanted some to make it look nice.
,- '\ He stated they will have to take some of the trees down but will save what they can
~ / because they know what value the trees have on property and they plan on building
expensive executive homes.
Commission Vatne asked if these will be custom homes similar in nature to those at
Silver Meadows. Mr. Foss stated they would be.
Commissioner Jasper stated they have struggled with the five hundred foot cul-de-sac and
his concern was that this was not a temporary one, it is permanent. Chairperson Daninger
concurred.
Chairperson Daninger summarized the concerns of the Planning Commission in regards
to long cul-de-sacs. He stated they would need a definition of an emergency access onto
7th. He stateq. he liked the idea of four plus acres per lot. Another concern was the issue
of keeping as many trees as possible. He would like to see the reasons why the cul-de-
sac is not a through street, other than costs.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the August 4, 2004 City
Council meeting.
OTHER BUSINESS.
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'---_./ Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items.
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Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - July 27, 2004
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Mr. Bednarz discussed the construction of the Community Center and Andover Station I
South.
Commissioner Vatne stated he saw there was some discussion of priorities for the
Council going into next year and he thought it might be worthwhile to have an overview
of that to understand where the priorities are in terms of projects for next year. Mr.
Bednarz stated he will bring that to the Commission for discussion.
Chairperson Daninger asked if they wanted to discuss the issue of 500 feet cul-de-sac.
Commissioner Gamache thought the City Council has pretty much given their opinion on
this and he did not think any more discussion was needed.
Commissioner Jasper stated he was amazed how quickly Super America went down and
how fast CVS is going up. Chairperson Daninger stated he thought the Commission did a
great job in reviewing the plans for CVS and giving them ideas on how to build without a
vanance.
ADJOURNMENT.
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. , Motion by Gamache, seconded by Casey, to adjoúrn the meeting at 8:16 p.m. Motion
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carried on a 6-ayes, O-nays, I-absent (Kirchoff) vote.
Respectfully Submitted,
Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary
TžmeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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