HomeMy WebLinkAboutAugust 24, 2004
u Ü
CITY o F
:) NDOVE
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
Andover Planning and Zoning Commission
Meeting Agenda
August 24, 2004
Andover City Hall
Council Chambers
7:00 p.m.
1. Call to Order
2. Approval of Minutes - August 10,2004
3. PUBLIC HEARING: Preliminary Plat for planned unit development review
of Miller's Woods, an urban residential plat located at 15955, 15827, 15803,
and 15773 Crosstown Boulevard NW.
:,,) 4. Work Session:
a. Open Space Ordinance Discussion
5. Other Business
6. Adjournment
/- "
. ,
\,-.-J
U C6lJLU±- WJ
CITY o F
NDOVE WL·Lttin q-/3 --Ói
" "\
1
'- _.-J
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING - AUGUST 24, 2004
The Regular Bi-Monthly Meeting ofthe Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order by Chairperson Daninger on August 24,2004, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover
City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present: Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Rex Greenwald,
Jonathan Jasper and Michael Casey.
Commissioners absent: Commissioners Tim Kirchoff, Tony Gamache, Dean Vatne.
Also present: City Planner, Courtney Bednarz
Associate Planner, Andy Cross
Others
, '.
\J APPRO V AL OF MINUTES.
August 10, 2004
Motion by Casey, seconded by Jasper, to approve the minutes as presented. Motion
carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Kirchoff, Gamache, and V atne) vote.
PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT REVIEW OF MILLER'S WOODS, AN URBAN RESIDENTIAL
PLAT LOCATED AT 15955,15827, 15803, AND 15773 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD
NW.
Mr. Cross explained that the Planning and Zoning Commission is asked to review the
preliminary plat for Miller's Woods, a Planned Unit Development (P.U.D.) on 43-acres
located along Crosstown Boulevard between I 57th Avenue and 16lst Avenue.
In January 2004, the applicant hosted a neighborhood meeting at City Hall to get input on
his development plans from Andover residents who live in the vicinity of the Miller's
Woods properties. The residents who came also attended public hearings and City
~J Council meetings to express ideas they had about the development. From this input the
City Council asked that the Miller's Woods development incorporate two key features: an
effort towards preservation of the existing woodlands on the site and a buffer or transition
0 U
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - August 24, 2004
Page 2
.,
C_) area between the urban density of this development and the rural character of the existing
properties around the development.
The preliminary plat submission and Planned Unit Development proposal represent an
effort on the part of the developer to comply with the wishes of the City Council and the
residents who live in the vicinity of the development.
Mr. Cross discussed the information with the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Greenwald wondered if they should discuss the email from the Fire
Department. Mr. Cross stated the email he received from the Fire Department which
refers to the trail in the application is a twelve foot bituminous trail that connects the
development with I 59th A venue on the east side to the temporary cul-de-sac that is there.
The Fire Marshall expressed they felt the twelve foot wide trail was insufficient in
providing access for emergency vehicles to the development and a street would be
preferred.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to open the public hearing at 7:07 p.m.
Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Kirchoff, Gamache, and V atne) vote.
Mr. Andy Herring, 15883 Hex Street, wondered what the Commissions feelings were
(:J regarding opening I 59th to the development allowing the residents of the new
development to pass through the existing development. Chairperson Daninger stated they
will be discussing this and making a recommendation this evening. He stated there are
some recommendations to put the street through because of safety reasons. Mr. Herring
stated he would be opposed to this for safety reasons himself. He moved to the area
because there was not a through street which was safer for his children. He wondered if
there were other options than to have this as a secondary access.
Mr. Herring stated the residents of the new development will be using this access, not the
Fire Department. He did not feel a new neighborhood should affect their living in the
area.
Commissioner Jasper asked if staff was aware of purchasing any more property to open
up a second access to the north. Mr. Bednarz stated there are three other properties but
they are not involved with this development.
Mr. Herring stated if the road is opened up only for fire and safety reasons, he would be
fine with that but he would not want it opened up to public access for a thoroughfare.
Mr. Pat Sprag, 525 I 59th Avenue, stated he also has concerns with the traffic. If this is
such a safety concern, why has the road not been opened up before this development. He
thought it was more of a safety concern for the new development and not theirs. He
~-) stated he was opposed to this and they already paid for the road twice.
u Ü
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - August 24, 2004
/ '\ Page 3
,_J
Mr. Gary Laurent, Laurent Development Company, stated he did not have a presentation
but would answer any questions or address any issues.
Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to close the public hearing at 7:18 p.m.
Motion carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Kirchoff, Gamache, and V atne) vote.
Chairperson Daninger stated they needed to discuss the street.
Commissioner Jasper stated his thoughts addressed several issues. The fIrst is the road.
They have said repeatedly that they do not want long cul-de-sacs. They have approved
several plats with temporary cul-de-sacs with the idea that when adjacent plats
developed, the road would be opened and that is what they have. He thought this would
be a bad idea to start making temporary cul-de-sac's permanent cul-de-sacs. He was
sympathetic to the residents but he thought this was a City wide planning problem.
Commissioner Jasper stated he did not think they should start approving twenty-eight
foot wide roads. If twenty-eight foot wide roads are safe and acceptable, they should
change the standard for the City. The reason stated for having twenty-eight foot roads
throughout the PUD is to save trees. He did not think they would be saving a huge
amount of trees in this development with a smaller road.
, \ Commissioner Jasper stated from the Council notes they talk about how from a PUD the
,..~ develop needs to demonstrate how the amenities benefit the City. He sees how the
amenities discussed in the PUD benefit the developer and the development but he did not
see a wider benefit to the City other than transitioning into the surrounding rural area.
The PUD Statute talks about several things to consider and this PUD suggests unlike any
other PUD they have seen, they are not going to look at design of individual residences or
buildings. He was not sure if this is appropriate for a PUD. They should have input on
the design and have roads that conform and the cul-de-sac should not be there. He stated
the plan shows for bunching of trees for a more natural setting and their standard is to
have two trees on every front lot. He did not think this was a bad idea but if it is done in
this development, it should be done Citywide.
Commissioner Jasper also stated he has seen Mr. Laurent's developments and they are
beautiful and he would love to see them in Andover.
Chairperson Daninger stated one of the concerns is the narrow street and the design
standard ofthe PUD.
Commissioner Greenwald stated he basically agreed with Commissioner Jasper. He
stated this is a temporary cul-de-sac and they have a lot ofthem in Andover. He cannot
see the Commission going against the Fire Marshall or City Council recommendations
for the road.
~ )
0 0
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - August 24, 2004
f' Page 4
\ ,~)
Commissioner Greenwald asked if they went with the standard road, would it cut down
on the size of the lots.
Mr. Cross showed a map of the development and explained where the road will go
through and that the plat would be reduced by one lot. He stated they have curved the
road through the development and suggested a 28' wide street to slow traffic down.
Commissioner Greenwald asked ifthe cul-de-sac was posted temporary. Mr. Cross
stated it was. Mr. Bednarz stated it was posted approximately one to one and a half years
ago when the Council asked for the temporary cul-de-sac's to be posted.
Commissioner Greenwald asked if they could put a locked gate up for emergency access
only. Mr. Bednarz stated they have never done anything like this. He stated they have
looked into a trail but the Fire Department did not want that.
Mr. Cross stated the Fire Chief did indicate that as long as parking is only allowed on one
side of the street, there will be adequate room for the fire trucks.
Chairperson Daninger asked if the narrow road equaled slower traffic. Mr. Cross stated it
could contribute to slower traffic.
r~ Chairperson Daninger stated there is a neighborhood pool and park indicated. He
\,J
wondered if there were any concerns or comments. Commissioner Greenwald stated he
thought is would be a nice added amenity.
Chairperson Daninger asked if the entrance into the facility defmed well enough or are
there any questions on that. Commissioner Greenwald wondered if the stop light will be
at the entrance. Mr. Cross stated a stoplight will be at the intersection of Crosstown and
I 59th at some point in the future.
Chairperson stated there is a question or concern that pertains to the road improvement
costs. Mr. Bednarz stated the intersection at Crosstown Boulevard and the proposed
primary access to the development will trigger required improvements from the Anoka
County Highway Department. The City foresaw this when the Constance Comers
development went in and collected $60,000 at that time for these improvements. He
stated in addition, Constance Comers actually paid for the construction of improvements
on County Road 20, which was their second access. He stated that leaves Fire Station
No.3 and the proposed development, Miller's Woods, as the two other contributors
towards the County requirements for Crosstown Boulevard. The Fire Station
contribution has been determined by the number of Sewer Access Charges (SAC). They
have three SAC's. The City only has a rough estimate ofthe actual cost of the !
intersection improvements and it is assumed to be rather conservative. The condition of
approval would indicate the developer is responsible for the balance of the intersection
0 improvements beyond that which Constance Comers and the Fire Station would pay.
The timing of that payment and generation of the payment amount will be conditions of
,
,
-
ü 0
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - August 24, 2004
Page 5
'\
'- ~ the fmal plat. The developer may be able to fmal plat and get started yet this year on a
small number of lots near the intersection. They would pay per unit, based on whatever
estimate is at that time. The balance of the intersection would be constructed in the
spring or early summer, at which time they will have a fmner understanding of what the
actual costs are and can be assigned to the remainder of the fmal plat for the developer.
He stated the developer may have the opportunity to do some grading work after the
preliminary plat is approved to recover the east side of the road bed to save some costs.
Chairperson Daninger asked if the developer was aware of this conversation. Mr.
Laurent stated he has had a discussion with Mr. Bednarz and they are willing to pay their
share of the improvements. They agreed with staging the development and payment
based on a per lot fee.
Commissioner Greenwald asked what the estimated completion time of the Fire Station
was. Mr. Bednarz stated it should be open by the end of the year.
Chairperson Daninger took a consensus of the Commissioners regarding this
development.
Chairperson Daninger asked with looking at the cul-de-sac as presented, does
Commissioner Casey want to see the street through. Commissioner Casey stated he did
: ') want the street to go through and he was comfortable with the twenty-eight foot streets
'. - because it will slow traffic. He also thought a traffic signal would slow traffic down and
make this a safer intersection.
Chairperson Daninger stated he was comfortable with the way it is. He would like to see
I 59th go through because of the safety factors involved. He believed they have looked at
this multiple ways. There were a lot of other concerns addressed in the PUD that were
not mentioned. He would have to make a recommendation to have the road go through.
Commissioner Greenwald stated his fIrst issue was the twenty-eight foot road and if they
did set a precedent by approving it. He thought it was good use of the property and by
putting I 59th through as a road would ease safety concerns. He stated the road was a
temporary cul-de-sac and should be opened up because it meets the requirements. From
the preliminary sketch it looked like the developer has utilized all of the land they have as
buffers and have done a great improvement to the development to keep existing trees.
Commissioner Jasper stated the next item on their agenda is going to be about Open
Space design and the report they had to consider talks about street standards and cluster
developments and he thought this was what this was designed to be as a PUD. He read
from the Open Space discussion information. He stated he did not know if a PUD makes
sense when they are not doing anything with design or architecture of the homes. The
only reason this was made into a PUD was to allow the developer to put more lots and
~~ substandard streets in the development. He did not think this was a good reason to do it.
:
,
u U
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes -August 24, 2004
Page 6
"-
\ ) Motion by Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to recommend to the City Council approval
of Resolution No. _, approving the Preliminary Plat using Alternative C-IA. Motion
carried on a 3-ayes, I-nays (Jasper), 3-absent (Kirchoff, Gamache, and Vatne) vote.
Mr. Bednarz stated that this item would be before the Council at the September 7,2004
City Council meeting.
WORK SESSION
a. Open Space Ordinance Discussion
Mr. Bednarz discussed an article on Open Space Ordinances with the Commission.
Chairperson Daninger thought they may want to have this as another option open to them
in their Ordinance. Commissioner Greenwald stated this wording has a lot of different
catch phrases through out. He gave a few examples to the Commission. He stated some
of the wording,was vague and he would like a better explanation.
Commissioner Greenwald asked if this item was an article Mr. Bednarz saw or was this a
new type of development. Mr. Bednarz stated these developments allow options for rural
, '\ areas beyond gridded out two and a half acre lots. Commissioner Greenwald stated they
)
- ~ have both urban and rural development in Andover. He personally likes being in a
neighborhood but then there are people who enjoy more land in Andover. He thought
this might be trying to balance it.
Chairperson Daninger stated something like this is worth exploring because maybe there
is a right fit but if they do not explore it, and then they will never have the opportunity to
use it. He thought there may be an opportunity for a preservation of open space in the
City.
Commissioner Casey thought this was an outstanding idea and is a concept that should
have been used a long time ago. He stated he has looked at the Minnesota Land Trust on
agricultural land and they went one step further in the report where they are instituting in
with cluster zoning. It is nice because when you can set aside land and incorporate
cluster housing within it, not only does it benefit the land owner, it also looks nicer and
brings a lot of added value to the homes. This is a huge selling point and advantage to
the homeowner who buys there.
Commissioner Greenwald agreed with this but was concerned with some of the language
in the article because in every development there are "irreplaceable natural resources".
Commissioner Casey thought from working the last twenty years in the Twin Cities,
green areas are very limited within the developments. He thought this was a very nice
,- \ concept. He stated he loved development along with agriculture. He finds it very
'J pleasing.
I
!
;
,
0 CJ
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - August 24, 2004
,- , Page 7
\ I
~
Commissioner Jasper stated as he read the article and understands that, in the rural
developments, they are zoned for two and a half acre lots but with this development, they
would cluster the homes and get the same number of lots but get a great deal more open
area which is an amenity for the City. He stated the concern he has is according to the
article, cluster development in rural areas should be required and he did not know if he
was ready to go that far. He stated in the Twin Cities they are sprawling terribly and
have traffic problems, time problems and infrastructure problems. He thought a lot of the
problems may be solved by cluster development if required. In terms of the City, he
thought this was a wonderful idea because they should have some open areas instead of
endless houses.
Chairperson Daninget thought this should bediscussed further and more information
given. Mr. Bednarz stated he would gather more information and bring this back to the
Commission for further work session discussion.
OTHER BUSINESS.
Mr. Bednarz updated the Planning Commission on related items.
( "
" .J Commissioner Greenwald asked when was the potential opening of the Target store. Mr.
Bednarz stated they are planning on having the building all closed up by December and
opening by the Easter season.
Commissioner Greenwald asked what the progress on the bowling center was. Mr.
Bednarz stated they made it through Council approval for the liquor license but they have
not submitted a site plan for approval at this point.
Chairperson Daninger stated he noticed progress being done on Clocktower Commons.
Mr. Bednarz stated the first phase of the development project is the Conoco Station on
the Comer of Bluebird and Hanson and the developer has designs to get other tenants in
and get started as long as they are black topping and building streets.
Chairperson Daninger stated Commissioner Kirchoffwas absent because his wife was
having surgery and Chairperson Daninger asked the Commission and residents to keep
him in their prayers. Also there were some compliments made at the Council meeting
regarding the Planning Commission and he wanted to pass it on that the Commission is
doing a wonderful job. He stated they were nice to hear.
Commissioner Jasper stated as he drove to City Hall, there appeared to be some dirt being
moved at the Andover Station North site, and he wondered what was going on. Mr.
/' '\ Bednarz stated there continues to be some wetland mitigation as a part of reconfiguring
\~_! the ponds on the south side of Bunker Lake Boulevard for Target and they are also doing
some exploration of the first two feet of soil at the old auto yard to see what needs to be
(ì f "
'--./ \'
--'
Regular Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes - August 24, 2004
,- - Page 8
\ /
dealt with, what needs to be hauled away and what can be used as a road bed in the
future.
ADJOURNMENT.
Motion by a Greenwald, seconded by Casey, to adjourn the meeting at 8:15 p.m. Motion
carried on a 4-ayes, O-nays, 3-absent (Kirchoff, Gamache, and Vatne) vote.
Respectfully Submitted,
Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc. .
-- "
)
/ -- , \
" )
--