HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP February 11, 2000
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CITY of ANDOVER
Special City Council Meeting
Agenda
Friday, February 11,2000
10:00 a.m.
1. Can meeting to order
2, Comp Plan/School Discussion
3. Adjourned
CITY of ANDOVER
SPECIAL ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL MEETING- FEBRUARY 11,2000
MINUTES
The Special City Council Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by
Mayor Jack McKelvey, February 11,2000,10:13 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685
Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Julie Johnson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel
Councilmembers absent: None
Also Present: City Administrator, Richard Fursman
Community Development Director, Dave Carlberg
Building Official, Dave Almgren
Fire Chief, Dan Winkel
Metropolitan Council Members - Dick Thompson, Tom
McElveen, Natalie Steffen
Others
Dave Carlberg asked City Council and Metropolitan Council what kind offormat they
would like the meeting to be. Ms. Steffen indicated that Met Council is not here to
discuss why the City decided not to join the Livable Communities Act. The meeting is to
discuss what needs to be done regarding five possible school sites. After talking to
Chairman of the Board Dan Erhart and County Commissioner Dennis Berg, and others, it
was determined that a potential sixth site, the Anoka County Gun Range, is not available.
Ms. Steffen stated that one of the first things to do today is discuss the individual sewage
treatment systems (ISTS). Dick Thompson would like to come to an understanding as to
where the City is regarding adopting and developing an ISTS program. David Almgren,
Building Official, explained that their department sends out a statement every year asking
who has pumped their systems. This program has been in place for approximately 24
years. Any failed systems are being corrected which is approximately 40 systems a year.
This has been documented the last couple years and all information such as where the
system failed, what was the cause, and what has been done, was sent to Met Council.
Met Council acknowledged that we do have a program intact for tracking failures and
now it is a matter of their staff working with the City to see how close we come to the
7080 requirements which, at this time, deals mainly with inspections; not pumping which
is required by State Statute.
Mike Knight explained that not all certified inspectors come from pumping companies.
Mr. Thompson suggested they survey other communities on their tracking. They asked if
the City is willing to work with them on tracking the inspections and pumping. Jack said
the City would be willing, but their was a concern as to why the City requires pumping
every two years which seems like an extra expense especially when a system is not used
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - February 11, 2000
Page 2
that frequently, and the soil differs from other metropolitan areas. Mr. Thompson
recommended that it may be a good idea to have systems pumped every 3 years to match
State requirements, but that would be something the City and Met Council will need to
work on together.
DENSITY
In this regard, as Met Council looks at the plans and the benchmark that they use, they
have adopted the original blueprint that the City is familiar with establishing goals for
density in urban areas at a density of three units per acre. Met Council Staff evaluations
at this point come up with a number that is slightly below. Their analysis indicates a
range between 2 and 2 1/2 units per acre. They need information in respect to wetland
factors to determine that the plan is consistent with the regional policy.
One of the things to look at collectively is the mix of housing type. At this time, Met
Council is not comfortable with what they are seeing in terms of what the density is in the
urban area mentioned. A way to address this is where is the City in terms of looking at
the urban area density?
Don Jacobson asked for the definition of "affordable housing". Tom McElveen
responded that ownership value is $134,250, or less, which is considered affordable under
the Livable Communities Act at an income of about $45,000 a year. On the rental side,
an affordability example would be a two bedroom unit at $750 a month or less.
Getting back to the density issue, the goal is 3 units per acre in urban area. The regional
average is 60% single unit and 40% attached, but over the next 20 years the average will
be as much as lout of every 2 units being some sort of attached unit. The reason for that
is unfortunately everyone is getting older, and we will have the baby boomers wanting to
give up that single family house and will look for another type of housing. The most
important issue to think about in planning for housing is who is it that we are we planning
for in the next 20 years. Do we have a place for Seniors, or affordable single-family?
The goal is an appropriate mix of housing. Mike Knight noted the projected average
value of a home five years from now is $145,000. Mr. Thompson responded that the
$134,350 may stay at that for the next few years. Mayor McKelvey stated that this is
market driven and how do you control that? Mr. Thompson stated that we need to be
thoughtful about trying to provide affordable housing opportunities for seniors and
families. We need affordable housing. We are looking for attached housing to happen.
Don Jacobson noted one idea that Ms. Steffen brought forth was several cities pooling
together. He asked what the feeling with Met Council is on doing something like that.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - February 11, 2000
Page 3
Mr. McElveen stated all of Dakota County, through their Housing and Redevelopment
Authority, and as 11 cities, got together and created a Dakota County Cluster and
negotiated Livable Communities goals based upon that cluster approach and county-wide
goals. An example is the 1-3Sw corridor that has seven cities joint-powered to try to
develop a seven-city comprehensive plan.
There was some discussion of how Rosemount handled their land use plan. Ken Orttel
mentioned that we stay on track and asked what exactly does Met Council want the City
to do. They stated that on the density issue, the City is a little light. Do we want to
tighten up our single family district, or do we want to add some multi-attached housing?
He would suggest multi-attached housing because he thinks there will be a market for it.
There has to be an element of multi-housing. Councilmember Orttel asked if the plan
will ever be approved without it. Ms. Steffen responded that they have not approved a
plan without it to date.
Met Council stated they are talking about life-cycle housing for the future and would like
the City to provide the opportunity for that to happen. There was discussion as to what
the City has already. There are houses for $139,000, but they are older homes. The Met
Council would like the City to negotiate more multiple and lower cost housing. They
would like the City to join the LCA so they can help us achieve that. The issue here is
how to work together on the Comp Plan Site to get some land that is guided and zoned
for attached housing and would like to work on achieving some affordability in the
developments that are to come.
It was questioned as to what is considered Multi-family. Met Council stated it mainly
relates to density. Ms. Steffen asked Dave Carlberg, Community Development Director,
if the City has any idea where they want to go or what they want to do with the
benchmarks presented at a previous meeting. Mr. Carlberg stated that they have not had
the opportunity to discuss the benchmarks with the City Council.
Ms. Steffen questioned the City's goal or benchmark for single-family ownership and
rental. Mr. Carlberg noted it is set at 69-78% in the benchmark and the goal that is being
looked at is 50% for new construction in which townhomes were considered in the
development. That is how it got down to 50%. Councilmember Orttel didn't realized it
was only for new construction. He understood it included past construction. He stated if
we need to have a benchmark, let's establish one, but let's back it up and have it
somewhere cemented so that we do not go through this again and ignore it.
Councilmember Knight stated the City probably has more percentage peat and wetland,
much of which is in the tail-end of the MUSA.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - February 11, 2000
Page 4
Mr. McElveen indicated the Met Council seeks an overall density of 1 unit per lOin
permanent rural areas, 1 in 40 in urban reserve areas and 1 in 3 in urban areas. In the
plan, as they understand it today, Andover is at 1 per 3.2. In the plan policies there seems
to be a disconnect between the realities of what the land is, the policy of the plan, and the
expectations of the blueprint. In the land that is defined as permanent rural, a quick
calculation comes up with a density that is riot consistent with the Comp Plan Policy. As
they have looked at the City's urban reserve today, it seems that it is at 1 per 3.2. They
do not see the "ghost platting" and clustering.
At this point, Dave Carlberg stated the City Council needs to set rules, and Met Council
needs to work together with staff regarding density for Planned Unit Developments,
There was discussion concerning the existing land. Met Council explained the existing
land use doesn't count for or against the City. They are looking for what the anticipated
development is. To clarify some of what the confusion is at Met Council level
concerning environmental limitations, there are 976 units that they see in the plan that are
oriented to the areas defined as permanent rural or urban reserve. As they look at the
numbers and area, they have a hard time looking at the land that is left and understanding
how approximately 1000 units could be accommodated in this area and still achieve the
policies that we use as measures. They use the "Systems Test". Will it be serviceable?
What will the impact be on a regional basis?
Further discussion was on why this seems like a Soviet style of management -- going by
"collective rules". How does this help the City with urban sprawl, also known as "smart
growth"? It seems like an absolute contradiction, especially at the outer extension of the
MUSA.
Dick Thompson responded that over the next 20 years and beyond, there will be another
500,000 moving into the metropolitan region and it's there challenge to find an orderly
and efficient way to accommodate the growth in the region and recognize their
limitations. They have a responsibility to use the taxpayers money wisely when making
investments and systems. There will be a need for mobility options for seniors. ,That is
the most expensive type of public transportation that is provided. There must be areas
logically located where trips can be consolidated to take seniors to medical appointments,
recreational meetings, etc. By working together, we can collect the information and make
some wise decisions.
Ms, Steffen stated they could debate these issues, but first there is a need to set rules to
play by here. What she thinks she heard from the City is that the City rea1ly needs to put
school issues in the Comprehensive Plan. Mr. McElveen interceded stating benchmarks
are a comparison to other Cities. The goal is affordable new construction and preserving
affordable housing that we have already.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - February 11, 2000
Page 5
Met Council would like the City to get to 35% and see a push on attached housing
(anything other than single family) in the future. As far as owner-renter mix, Andover is
about 95% owned; the metro-region average is 70% owned-30% renter. The City's
benchmark is 75% owned-25% renter. They also require the City to permit the
opportunity for owner-renter mix. At this time, this region is short rental units.
Developers do not look at affordable housing, but if we have some land that's guided for
some attached, we may see a difference. A good size would be a 24 unit building.
Councilmember Orttel asked what incentives Met Council can provide for developers to
provide more affordable houses. Representatives from Met Council stated there are a
number of subsidies available.
Comments were made that transportation problems throughout the City should be
factored into the goals that are set along with discussions on the type of soil conditions
such as peat and much wetland, Met Council representatives agreed that those things
should be factored in. The Mayor invited the Met Council to do a tour of the City
sometime in the spring. The Council continued to talk about goals and benchmarks for
each livable life-cycle housing categories. The following goals were negotiated as part of
the discussion:
CITY INDEX BENCHMARK GOAL
Affordability ,
Ownership 72% 69-87% 40%
Rental 26% 35-50% 35%
Life:CycIe'
Type (Non-single family 4% 33-35% 15%
detached)
Ownerfrenter Mix 95/5% (75)/(25)% 90/10%
Density ,
Single-Family Detached I.O%/acre 1.9-2.3/acre 2.3 Net Acres
Multi-family O/acre 10-13/acre 8 units
Council expressed concern on setting a $135,000 limit as an affordable house, fearing if
that amount would be frozen over time, the City would fall out of compliance with it's
goals. Tom from the Met Council indicated that number is indexed with federal rates and
as the federal rates change, so will those percentages for the City.
Mike Knight asked if the City meets Comprehensive Plan goals, would we then be
required to join Livable Communities. Natalie indicated that the City would not be
required to join or participate in the Livable Communities Act.
The question was presented as to how long it would take for the Met Council Staff to
review the information provided by City Staff and get an answer so information could be
shared with the School District.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - February II, 2000
Page 6
Met Council's staff responded by indicating there would need to be discussions
on sewer flow information along with transportation numbers. Mr. Carlberg indicated he
would be unable to provide the amount of data that Staff is requiring in time for the
School District to react.
Tom indicated he would be able to use rough numbers on the data to make a decision.
Councilmember Jacobson wanted to know if the City could re-negotiate after the school
is built. Natalie indicated the numbers would have to be agreed to ahead of time. She
further indicated that the benchmarks were greatly reduced through the negotiations.
There were concluding discussions on the philosophical disposition of the City Council
and the Livable Communities Act. Resident Julie Trude raised issues about the
relationship between the Met Council and the school. Gene Ranieri indicated he would
like to help with providing Met Council tours of the City.
A motion was made by Don Jacobson, seconded by Julie Johnson to adjourn the meeting.
The motion passed unanimously. The meeting adjourned at 12:38 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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Pat Janssen/Richard Fursman
Recording Secretaries