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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP December 13, 2001 - CITY OF ANDOVER 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100 FAX (763) 755-8923. WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US Special Joint City CouncillPark and Recreation Commission Meeting Thursday, December 13,2001 Call to Order - 7 :00 PM I. Review 5 Year CIP Trail Projects _n 2. Review 5 Year CIP Park Projects 3. . Other Business 4. Adjournment . - CITY of ANDOVER JOINT CITY COUNCIL & PARK AND RECREA TION COMMISSION WORKSHOP- DECEMBER 13, 1001 MINUTES The Joint Special Meeting of the City Council and the Andover Park and Recreation Commission was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache on December 13, 2001, 7:02 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers Present: Mayor Mike Gamache, Councilmembers Don Jacobson, Julie Trude, Ken Orttel, and Mike Knight. Commissioners Present: Chairperson Valerie Holthus, Commissioners AI Grabowski, Chris English, and Dave Blackstad. Commissioners Absent: Commissioners Paul Anderson, Jim Lindahl, and Chris DeLaForest. Also Present: Parks Coordinator, Todd Haas City Administrator, John Erar Public Works Supervisor, Frank Stone City Engineer, Scott Erickson Finance Director, Jim Dickenson Others REVIEW 5 YEAR CIP TRAIL PROJECTS Mr. Erar reviewed the 5 Year CIP Trail Projects, which were included in the packet provided for the Council and the Commission. Mr. Haas presented a map of all the trails included in the 5 Year CIP Trail Plan. He stated which year each project is targeted to be completed. He mentioned that the trail project for 2002 is the trail along Verdin Street. Commissioner English explained that the reason the Commission recommended it for 2002 is because the school will also be an attraction for activities during non-school hours. .. . , - Joint City Council & Andove. .rk & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December 13, 2001 Page 2 Mayor Gamache explained that at this time the City is unaware of what the school district is going to do in terms of transportation for the kids. He explained that the Commission and the Council are concerned about the high speed traffic on Verdin St. and therefore are looking at ways to build trails to allow a safe way for kids to get to school. He suggested waiting to see what the school district decides before the City takes any action. He agreed with the residents in attendance that there would be a difficulty building a trail along Verdin St. because of numerous reasons. He mentioned that there have been discussions about running a trail through the neighborhoods, however that would need cooperation from the residents. Councilmember Jacobson stated that he received a strong impression from the public that they were against all trails in the area. A resident from the area stated that they are not opposed to all trails in the area, but they are opposed to the location of the proposed trail along Verdin Street. A resident in attendance questioned if the trail would go as far as a 176th. Chairperson Holthus stated that the trail would stop right before 176th. - A resident in attendance mentioned that most kids have their own play equipment in their backyard, therefore they wouldn't be going to the school for that reason. A resident in attendance questioned where they would be able to snowmobile if there were to be a trail along Verdin St. He mentioned that he's not against doing a trail in the area, however is opposed to the proposed trail. Commissioner English mentioned that the Commission recommended to keep the easement on a subdivision in the area. He suggested putting the trail off of 159th. Mayor Gamache agreed that this would be a good idea. Councilmember Orttel agreed that it would be much safer to route the trail through the neighborhoods. A resident in attendance stated that she doesn't want her kids walking along Verdin St. She questioned if the lot on Zion St. NW where two lots come together could be used to route a trail. Councilmember Trude stated that if the trail were to be along Verdin St. the City would have to pay for a lot of trees to be removed, therefore she suggested buying some private property to possibly put in a trail. Commissioner English suggested putting in a trail that runs from the inland of 159th and 161 st. Mayor Gamache stated that this is the fIrst time the City has had to deal with Joint City Council & Andover r'ark & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December 13, 2001 Page 3 something like this, however it needs to be handled differently than what's been done so far. Commissioner Blackstad suggested working with the neighbors to see if the City can get an easement to put a trail in through the neighborhoods. One resident in attendance stated that he would allow the City to put in a trail along the backside of his property. Commissioner Grabowski questioned why the City is busing everyone there currently. Chairperson Holthus stated that the reason is because it's currently unsafe. Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that if a trail is put in the kids will be expected to use the trail. He agreed that the trail shouldn't be located along Verdin St. Mr. Haas took the names and addresses of the residents in attendance that would allow a trail to run along their own property line. --- Mr. Erar explained that the reason the trail was proposed along Verdin St. is because there is a right-of-way available, however if there are residents that are willing to provide easements that would definitely help. Mr. Haas mentioned that there are a few areas that are concerns because of the wetlands. He stated that they were hoping someone would step forward at the informational meetings and provide a trail easement, however that didn't happen. Councilmember Trude suggested the Principal of the school write a letter to the residents, since it may carry more weight. Councilmember Orttel suggested the Engineering Department provide large scale maps of possible locations for a trail. Mr. Erar mentioned that the trail does need to be a certain width since there are maintenance issues to consider. A resident questioned if the City is wondering if they could take 5 feet from her property and 5 feet from her neighbors property. Mayor Gamache stated that was correct. The resident stated that it wouldn't work in her mind. A resident suggested applying for a grant from the DNR to put the trail in through the back of the school through the wetlands. Mr. Haas explained that a trail such as this would be a low priority for the DNR. Mayor Gamache stated that the City could look at it as an option. - Joint City Council & Andove. ~rk & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December 13, 2001 Page 4 Councilmember Jacobson stated that it seems everyone agrees with keeping the trail off of Verdin St. He suggested waiting until the school decides, and once they have, the City should have a neighborhood meeting with the residents to figure out the best solution to the problem. A resident suggested the City and/or the county next time look at all aspects of having a trail in a certain area. Mr. Erar explained that this workshop is a considered a Council workshop which doesn't necessarily request a lot of public input. He mentioned that anything that has been discussed this evening would have to be approved at another meeting and the public that's impacted would be notified. Councilmember Knight mentioned that the City will come back for input from the residents on how to design the trail so it stays off Verdin St. Mr. Erar rnentioned that any projects scheduled for 2003 through 2006 will need to be discussed again and approved by the Council. u Mr. Erickson stated that the City will begin the tunnel project in the spring of 2002. He mentioned that the funding has already been set aside in the budget. Mr. Erar summarized that staff is being directed to look at alternative locations, with the money for 2002 to remain the same, however the exact location of the trail will need to be reevaluated. Commissioner Blackstad stated that the Verdin Trail is an attractive nuisance. He stated that the kids are going to want to get to the school no matter what. Councilmember Orttel agreed that sooner or later the City will need trails to funnel kids in the area to the school. Commissioner Blackstad mentioned that the City is only locking in the trail projects for 2002, therefore each year will be reevaluated and if something else comes up the CIP Plan would be revised. Mr. Erar suggested blocking in the first year so staff can move forward with the feasibility study and so on. Councilmember Knight suggested installing a blinking warning light to warn drivers of the crossing near the school. Mr. Erickson mentioned that often times the county isn't in favor of these types of signals. . Joint City Council & Andove. rk & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December 13, 2001 Page 5 REVIEW 5 YEAR CIP PARK PROJECTS Mr. Erar suggested discussing the Crooked Lake Elementary School Hockey Rink first since they recently met on Monday night. He stated that this item is currently under Mr. Stone's budget. He stated that the question is whether or not the City should continue to contribute funds to something on school property. Chairperson Holthus mentioned that the warming house needs a lot of work. She stated that she recently attended a PTO meeting to find out if they are willing to do the warming house and then we could maybe work something out to fix the hockey rink. She mentioned that the principal was very interested in working something out with the City. Mr. Erar stated that it really is more of a policy issue and whether or not the City wants to contribute dollars to something on school property. Chairperson Holthus questioned who currently uses the hockey rink. Mr. Haas stated that currently the Blaine and Anoka Hockey Associations use the facility. He mentioned that there are residents from Andover in those associations. -~ Councilmember Trude stated that if the City can get money out of the Parent Teachers Organization (PTO), then the City should go for it. Chairperson Holthus stated that it would be terrible to loose the hockey rink. Commissioner English questioned if the City looses control since the rink is on school property. Chairperson Holthus mentioned that the principal is very interested in having a joint powers agreement. Mayor Gamache questioned Mr. Stone on what would be the repair costs. Mr. Stone stated that $20,000 is strictly for replacing the hockey rink itself. He mentioned that the lights on the rink itself are fine. Mr. Erar stated that staff is just looking for direction. He stated that it's a unique situation since it isn't a City owned facility. He stated if the direction from the Council and Commission is to move forward then that is fine with staff. Commissioner English questioned if it would be possible to have a draft memorandum of an agreement put together between the City and the school district. Chairperson Holthus mentioned that the City would have to go through Tom Durand, however he wasn't interested. She suggested someone such as Mayor Gamache to talk with Mr. Durand. Councilmember Orttel questioned if the hockey rink is actually used. . . . ~ - Joint City Council & Andover Í'ark & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December /3, 200/ Page 6 Mr. Erar stated that if the City is going to maintain it, Mr. Durand is suggesting that the City assume the liability. Commissioner Blackstad mentioned that another option would be to pull out the hockey rink and relocate it to Hidden Creek North Park. Councilmember Knight questioned if there is enough usage to warrant fixing the rink. Commissioner English stated that another option is to put the rink on City property at a regional park. Mr. Haas went on to review the projects slated for 2002 on the Parks CIP Plan. Councilmember Trude suggested spending more money on playground equipment and less money on asphalt. She suggested stretching the money further. It was mentioned that the concerns that came up on the survey were regarding more playgrounds. Mr. Haas mentioned that the City is receiving CDBG Funds for playground equipment at Prairie - Knoll. Commissioner Blackstad questioned if the City could get by with not putting in curb and gutter since it's in a rural area. Commissioner Grabowski advised against it since then people would be able to drive through on the grass. Commissioner English explained that the Commission decided they wanted to go into a park and do it right and finish it before moving on to the next park. Councilmember Trude questioned if the City will be able to continue at this pace every year if there were no plats in 2001 and won't be any in 2002. Mr. Dickenson stated that the money is already in the bank for the 2002 projects. Councilmember Trude questioned if the City should really spend $90,000 on a parking lot. Commissioner Blackstad mentioned that Hidden Creek is an example of when the Commission has made improvements in a park, however it was never really fmished. He stated that the Commission voted to do it all or nothing so it gets done right the first time. Mr. Dickenson mentioned that the bonding issue wouldn't be able to be used for 2002, therefore the first year this would be possible is 2003. , - ,. . - - Joint City Council & And01 irk & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December J 3, 20u ¡ Page 7 Councilmember Trude questioned how the City will take care of all the other developments if we take the money from park dedication for tonight's projects. Mr. Haas explained that in some situations the reason there hasn't been anything done with the other developments is because the developer hasn't done anything. Commissioner English stated that he personally would like to move away from small tot lots and instead have more regional parks. He explained that the Commission feels that the park dedication fees should also go to fund regional parks. Councilmember Trude mentioned that when someone pays $1 ,SOO for park dedication, they expect to see something. Councilmember Trude questioned staff if they feel the money will come through at some point and those developments will eventually be taken care of. Mr. Haas explained that Mr. Dickenson has figured it into the projections for the future. Councilmember Knight questioned iftot lots are consistent with the philosophy of the Park Commission. Commissioner English stated that if a tot lot is constructed the City is spending money that may benefit the neighborhood for a short period of time, however if the City focuses on regional parks a wider range of ages will be covered. Councilmember Knight questioned the Park Commission on whether or not they have philosophy. Commissioner Grabowski explained that the Commission has moved away from tot lots and focused more on larger amenity parks. Councilmember Jacobson stated that he agrees with the Park Commission to do one project at a time, finishing each project as we go. Councilmember Trude stated that she can respect this, however questioned if the City is spending too much money on 2-S year old playground equipment. She recommended adding one more play item for the older kids. A resident representing Wild Iris Park stated that they have nothing at their park. She stated that they would even like older equipment. She mentioned that they were originally in the plan, however once again have been moved out to 2003. She also mentioned that they have no trails that connect them to anything. A resident representing Hidden Creek East Park stated that he would like to see playground equipment for the younger kids and the older kids. - --- -~. - Joint City Council & Andover Park & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December 13, 2001 Page 8 Commissioner Blackstad explained that a few years ago the Commission worked on a plan for Wild Iris, however the City never received any aid to fund the project. He went on to explain what the Commission would like to do at Wild Iris. Councilmember Orttel stated that if the park is being held up because of the park and ride, that isn't right. Commissioner Grabowski recommended doing a park and finishing it. Councilmember Orttel questioned what process the Commission used to rate the parks. Commissioner Blackstad explained the process. Councilmember Trude stated that it really is an objective feeling. She questioned if regional parks scored higher. Commissioner Blackstad stated not necessarily. Councilmember Orttel questioned why parks that don't have anything at all didn't receive high marks. He stated that the whole process was biased. - Commissioner English eXplained that the first two objectives were citizen's needs and association's needs. He explained that the parks that didn't rate very high were parks that aren't currently benefiting the youth associations. Councilmember Knight questioned if the field isn't up to the standards then it becomes ignored. The resident from Wild Iris questioned if seniority shouldn't playa role in the process. Commissioner Blackstad stated that another area Wild Iris didn't rank well was under maintenance because of the costs. Councilmember Trude suggested pulling out some of the bleachers in the plan and putting in playground equipment. Mayor Gamache mentioned that this would only make a small change to the park. Councilmember Trude questioned the resident fÌ'om Wild Iris as to what they would like to see in their park, playground equipment or a parking lot. The resident stated that they would like to see playground equipment. The resident stated that the equipment is in a perfect spot. She stated that seniority should be taken into consideration since they've been on the list for 10 years. She questioned who benefited fÌ'om their park dedication funds. - --- - ---.., . - Joint City Council & Andover Park & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December 13, 2001 Page 9 Commissioner English mentioned that Hawkridge Park was #1 on the CIP Plan, however after the rating process it's now moved to the end of the list. Councilmember Knight agreed that seniority should be taken into consideration. Commissioner Blackstad stated that the Commission only looked at the 19 parks listed in the Plan, however next year we believe we should review all the parks and take into consideration whether or not ADA requirements are met, safety standards, and age of equipment. He mentioned that there is other equipment out there that also doesn't meet safety standards. Councilmember Orttel stated that it seems Wild Iris Park has been put off because of the parking lot implications. He suggested it be separated out so the park isn't affected by it. He suggested not holding back the park because of the parking lot. Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that the Commission is recommending it be an all or nothing. Councilmember Orttel questioned if the park could be done without doing all of the park and ride. Commissioner Blackstad mentioned that the parking lot now is too small, especially with the park and ride using it there is no where to park when there's a game. The resident stated that she has seen a lot of inconsistency on the Council. She mentioned that they need things for the neighborhood. Councilmember Jacobson suggested moving Prairie Knoll to 2003 and doing Wild Iris in 2002. Commissioner English agreed. Mr. Haas reviewed the list of amenities proposed for each park. Mr. Erar questioned if there is consensus that the Timber Rivers Trail equipment be reassigned to a different park. Mayor Gamache stated that it definitely should be relocated since it's being vandalized. Mr. Erar stated that he would reprogram the $20,000 and leave the other improvements. The Council agreed to move the equipment frorn Timber Rivers to Wild Iris. A resident from Hidden Creek East stated that they would like to see the trail wrap around. Mr. Haas explained that they are looking for a perimeter trail. Commissioner Grabowski mentioned that there is access to the park. Mr. Erar mentioned that it's a great idea to have a reserve fund of $20,000 in the event that something comes up. , - Joint City Council & Andover i'ark & Recreation Commission Workshop I Minutes - December 13. 2001 Page 10 Mayor Gamache directed staff to move the playground equipment from Timber Rivers to Wild Iris and reprogram the $20,000 for equipment. Motion by Jacobson, seconded by Orttel, to approve the 2002 CIP Park Plan as amended, moving Prairie Knoll Park to 2003 and Wild Iris to 2002. Further Discussion Mayor Gamache questioned if there are any issues with Prairie Knoll that the Council needs to be concerned about. Mr. Haas stated that it has been seeded, however doubted that it would be functional for 2002. The resident in attendance questioned if this would include the paved path. Councilmember GrUel stated that it would include everything. Mayor Gamache suggested there be a neighborhood meeting for each park prior to the work being done. -- Mr. Erar mentioned that a motion really isn't necessary. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote. Councilmember Trude questioned if the Pine Hills bleachers were removed from the plan. Commissioner Blackstad stated that the Pine Hills and Strootman bleachers were removed from the plan. Councilmember Trude questioned if it's possible to remove Timber Rivers and pull the money but not allocate it until other priorities are reviewed. Mr. Erar explained that the Council is only approving projects for 2002. Commissioner Blackstad stated that $5,000 in bleachers, $15,000 in equipment would go back into the funds. Mayor Gamache questioned the size of the existing parking lot at Wild Iris. Commissioner Blackstad stated that it accommodates around 20 cars. Councilmember Knight suggested the parking lot be discussed with the neighbors at their neighborhood meeting. Councilmember Trude thanked the Commission for all their hard work on the project. Mayor Gamache thanked Mr. Haas for all his work as well. . - Joint City Council & Andovc .,rk & Recreation Commission Workshop Minutes - December 13, 2001 Page II OTHER BUSINESS There was no other business. ADJOURNMENT Motion by Jacobson, seconded by Orttel, to adjourn the meeting at 9:15 p.m. Motion carried on a 5-ayes, O-nays, O-absent vote. Respectfully Submitted, Sara Beck, Recording Secretary TimeSaver O./fSite Secretarial, Inc. - - - -- - ~ - -..,