HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP April 23, 2001
CITY of ANDOVER
Special City Council Meeting - Monday, April 23, 200 I
6:00 PM - Bus Tour
I. Tour of City Projects
Adjournment
CITY of ANDOVER
Special City Council Workshop - April 23, 2001
Call to Order - 7:30 PM
I. Discuss with Citizens/Issues Associated for a need of an Ice Arena Complex.
Adjoumment
CITY of ANDOVER
ANDOVER SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING - APRIL 13, 1001
MINUTES
A Special Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache on
April 23,2001,7:30 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover,
Minnesota.
Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude
Councilmembers absent: None
Also present: Finance Director, Jim Dickinson
Community Finance Director, Dave Carlberg
City Administrator, John Erar
Others
ANDOVER COMMUNITY FACILITY GROUP REPORT
Members of the Andover Community Facility Group and other interested parties: Frank Kellogg,
Group Leader; Tony Howard, Facilities and Construction; Gary Shibrowski, Facilities; Phil Graber,
Minnesota American Hockey Association; Patty Howard representing the wives and members of the
group and the children; Kim Mellem and Chad Peterson representing youth baseball and softball;
Jay Martell representing youth hockey and football; Commissioners Dave Blackstad and AI
Grabowski of the Park and Recreation Commission; Phil Grebner, Minnesota Hockey; and others.
Mr. Kellogg outlined the agenda for this evening to review current facility needs, highlight the
additional required facilities and the opportunity and discuss laying the foundation for success. He
stated the City and community fought to get the high school into Andover. They are now attempting
to consider the facilities needed to service the youth. The facility they are asking to be considered
would service not ice hockey, but also the sports of football, baseball, softball, volleyball, soccer,
as well as have a component for empty nesters and others with a walking track and possibly exercise
room. Their group was the facilitator, and now they want to partner with the City. They are
requesting a task force be formed to continue research, design a facility and look at financing options
that would benefit Andover and neighboring communities. Mr. Kellogg explained they are looking
at a multi-use facility with a dome component. There is a short-term economical challenge with
long-term vision needs.
Mike Sullivan, Chairman of the Anoka-Hennepin School Board, addressed the body noting his
background experience in building this type of facility. He understood the high school brings out
some needs in the community, especially boys and girls hockey teams and other sports. There is no
question that the facilities can always be used. The school district can make a commitment to using
a fair amount of the ice time, but he didn't think that is the reason for building the facility. It has
been his experience that it brings the community together. The high school will bring a sharper
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes -April 23, 2001
Page 2
(Andover Community Facility Group Report, Continued)
focus to the Andover Community. It is now a large City, which also brings demands. He realizes
it is difficult to fund but it is important to them in the school district. The school district may also
be looking at a levy referendum, and they want to be sensitive to how this may come into play. The
school district and community need to work together when looking at the needs, and not get in each
other's way.
Mr. Sullivan noted there is never too much ice time available, pointing out there is a lot of
opportunity to sell to adult hockey leagues. Volleyball is also a growing sport. They are constantly
receiving requests for it, but they cannot accommodate it. He hoped as the City proceeds, that they
will be useful and active partners. He felt there would be a lot of support, as it makes sense to the
residents to make this type offacility available to a growing community.
Mr. Kellogg pointed out hockey is an important component to Minnesota communities. The facility
would pay for its operating costs, upkeep and maintenance, unlike the ball fields and park shelters.
It even has the ability to create a profit. He reviewed the population growth from 15,216 in 1990 to
26,588 in 2000, with the population under age IS ranking 5th in the state. Those under age six years
are a greater percent of the population than those over six years old. The estimated population in
Andover in 2015 will be 35,000 to 40,000.
Mr. Shibrowski stated they moved from the Oaks of Shanandoah in Coon Rapids to Andover
because of the schools and the community itself. He has children involved in athletics in the
elementary and middle school and feels it is his civic duty to be involved where possible. About 250
to 275 Andover youth play football. The Anoka area football group is in favor of a joint group,
though he thought it will develop and possibly split in the future, depending on the type offacilities
and fields Andover has.
Ms. Mellem stated the baseball association had 700 youth this past year, but they will be including
age 13 and older this year which will add quite a few more. They anticipate that number only getting
larger. They have 50 teams for baseball. They would benefit greatly if they had this type of facility
available for tryouts, to hold baseball clinics and for practices. She also reviewed the success of
some of the baseball teams, representing Andover at national tournaments. Mr. Peterson explained
because ofthe weather this year, they have been running to the Como dome in St. Paul. They had
youth leagues going down there in the winter. That facility is used all the time. He felt a dome is
something Andover could really use. It would be a use for all ages. A multi-purpose facility is what
is needed.
Commissioner Grabowski stated the Andover Athletic Association has about 1300 youth with 80
softball teams this year, which is an increase over last year. Mr. Martell stated there are 400 to 500
hockey participants who now play in Anoka who would be in an association in Andover. When the
new high school opens, he assumes there will be a demand for boys and girls school teams. They
need 350 to 450 hours of ice to accommodate the high school teams. In calling around for ice time
for the 2001-2002 year, they could only come up with 200 hours. They desperately need ice to get
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - April 23, 2001
Page 3
(Andover Community Facility Group Report, Continued)
a good practice to game ratio of three- to-four hours of practice per game. He hoped this will be
looked at in a positive way. Mr. Shibrowski stated within the Minnesota Anoka Hockey Association,
they could only play 35 games throughout the year. In looking at the number of kids in the Anoka
program, there were only 100 prime hours and another 100 off-prime hours. Ms. Mellem also noted
that over the years, the amount of ice time for the younger kids has been declining.
Mr. Graber stated he is the District 10 director on the Minnesota Hockey Board, plus he is an
Andover resident. The demand for ice is so high that the amount of ice could double, and there still
wouldn't be enough time. The girls' program in the State of Minnesota is the largest anywhere in
the United States. The philosophy of the Minnesota Hockey Association is they are a community
based program. District 10 is set up by high school service areas. An Andover Association will have
to come into effect when the high school is built with a new agreement for an Andover area. Ice
sheet facilities are still needed in the local communities. As a taxpayer of the community, even
though he has no children in the program, he wouldn't mind paying tax dollars to take care of the
youth. Kids have to have athletics. If the community doesn't do that, it is going down the wrong
path. He felt a multi-purpose facility is the way to go. There needs to be some place for the kids to
go because Minnesota's environment is not friendly for spring sports.
Me. Shibrowski again emphasized there is a need, but understood the economic challenge. He felt
this is an opportunity that can develop into a new revenue stream. There will have to be some debt
service; but once it is paid, the revenue will continue and will provide funding for further
development of other structures and facilities. They compared the facilities provided at 24 other
communities with similar populations around the metropolitan area. Every one has at least an ice
arena and many have some type of sports complex as well. He talked with the vice president for real
estate and development for LifeTime Fitness. They are open to different areas. In Champlin they
will be a separate entity. They are discussing working with the new high school in the Otsego area.
In Plymouth they worked with the City and built a community pool that is shared with the
community and the health club.
Me. Howard explained they expanded their vision from just a hockey arena to a multi-purpose
complex. Their proposal is modeled around two separate facilities. The dome component comes
from Woodbury and the ice sheet prices from the Champlin ice rink. The estimated cost for a dome
facility is $980,000. It includes a walking track around the outside. Heating is estimated at $40,000
per year. Mr. Dickinson clarified he had originally told the Council it would be about $100,000 per
year in operating costs. That is an error, as further investigation has shown it be more around
$36,000 for electricity and gas.
Mr. Howard explained insulating the dome will drastically decrease the energy costs and would pay
for itself in two years. He noted the price does not include a drainage system in the turf, because the
intent would be to keep the dome inflated year round. Taking it down each year involves additional
cost and finding storage space, plus it increases the chances of damaging it. The life expectancy of
a dome is 15 years. A solid wall dome would cost $40 to $50 per square foot, but the dome isn't as
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes -April 23, 2001
Page 4
(Andover Community Facility Group Report, Continued)
high. This is 60 feet high. They have added golfing with a $20,000 net in Woodbury. The idea is
to use the facility year round. The domed facility does get hot in the sununer, but some places pump
cooler air rrom outside during the night, so it stays cooler in the morning hours. It was noted the
Woodbury facility is used very sparingly during July and August.
Mr. Howard continued the ice arena is estimated at $4.5 million based on Champlin's recent arena.
It would be an NHL size ice sheet with seating for approximately 1,200 and locker rooms under the
seating. They are proposing one zamboni. The common area is estimated at $500,000. They also
looked at the ability of the concession area to help pay the debt service. An estimated $100,000 a
year can be made from the concessions
Mr. Kellogg pointed out hockey is becoming more prevalent during the sununer months. Now they
go down to Bloomington to practice. Clinics can be run during the sununer, plus it provides open
ice time. Mr. Shibrowski stated Anoka has a private facility with two sheets of ice. They will be
taking one sheet out next year. They run indoor soccer through June I and put the ice in toward the
end of July. Champlin Park will be open year round this year, Skating in the spring, sununer and
fall is done more for skill development and for fun. They structure the program so the kids can play
other sports as well.
In discussing staffing, Mr. Howard stated they were looking at one professionally paid employee to
run the arena. A number of other managers, assistant mangers and part-time people may be needed.
It would be cheapest to hire two to three retired people to work part time.
Councilmember Jacobson understood they are asking the City to go out for a $6 million bond to
build these facilities. What are the organizations will to provide? Mr. Kellogg stated they are
suggesting a task force be formed to fmd a revenue stream. When taking into consider the turf rental
income and concessions, there would be about $200,000 of net income to debt service the bond. Mr.
Shibrowski hoped the task force would look at it and solicit information rrom existing facilities and
cities. The school district, county, Metropolitan Council, etc., should be considered. There has been
some precedent in the past on the part of the county of contributing toward ice arenas. Mr. Kellogg
suggested possibly the county would be willing to donate the land instead of cash. He estimated
eight to ten acres would be needed for the facility itself.
Mr. Erar complimented the group on the tremendous amount of work put into this presentation. This
is a very good starting point. In his experience with ice arenas, the $6 million will easily double
when considering furnishings, bonding, legal, engineering and land costs. There may be
opportunities to discuss this with the City of Ramsey. He did not know of any arenas that provided
a return on the investment, though possibly a multi-purpose facility would add to the return. But
there is a good argument to be made for the facility. There are also questions of who will run the
concessions, on the staffing, use, etc. He felt the group is right on track in terms of taking a broader
scope of providing uses for the entire community that would be available year round. There may
also be some concern with relying on the school district, as they are having funding issues.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes -April 23, 2001
Page 5
(Andover Community Facility Group Report, Continued)
Mr. Shibrowski argued there hasn't been a facility like this in the north metro area. Mr. Graber
agreed high schools can back out, but the hockey league has made a commitment. They have the
structure in place. The kids will not stop playing hockey. Those that don't make the high school
teams play in their league. He emphasized the hockey programs will not disappear. He guarantees
the Minnesota Hockey League will be around a lot longer than the high schools, and they would be
prepared to pick up the slack if the high school is cut.
In discussing the financing and other issues, Mr. Dickinson stated there are different mediums to
issue a bond for the facility. There is a lease revenue bond. If it is funding from the General Food,
there must be a referendum. Councilmember Orttel didn't think a GO bond would pass. A revenue
bond may be better. Councilmember Jacobson tended to agree, especially if the school district goes
out for another levy referendum. Councilmember Knight doubted Ramsey would be interested in
this. Councilmember Orttel thought it would be better approaching the City of Ham Lake. Mr. Erar
noted a problem with working with other communities is where it is to be located and with
scheduling. He did have a conversation with the City Administrator in Ramsey, and they have
scheduled a meeting to get together a focus group from both communities to look at the community
center survey. They are starting to move forward on that item. He suggested there be some
representation from this group on that task force to formulate questions about the multi-purpose
facility for the survey.
Mrs. Howard asked the Council to not lose sight of what this does for the community and the
children. She noted her own background of her parents making the effort so she could play sports,
and now she and her husband are doing the same thing for their children. This facility would not
only benefit the children, but also the community as a whole. The athletic associations require
volunteerism. How much is it worth to have someone come in and build it at cost? She challenged
the others to remember it is their responsibility to do this for the next generation. Councilmember
Trude stated realtors have told her the homes are worth more in a community that has a community
center. She was in favor of anything that can be done to enhance the family environment and keep
the kids off the street. Councilmember Jacobson was very concerned with it becoming a black hole
that requires the City to put money in every year. He felt it needs to be self-supporting and be able
to pay back the bonds.
The Council and those present discussed the process from this point. It was proposed that there be
parallel tracking of someone representing this group on the task force that will be formulating
questions for the community center survey plus another task force established to continue the work
on the multi-purpose facility proposed this evening, It was suggested the task force for the sports
complex consist of not more than seven members. Those members should include representation
from the Council, the Planning and Zoning Commission, the Park and Recreation Commission,
members that were involved in this Community Facility Group who represent the various sports and
possibly someone from the new bank.
Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes-April 23, 2001
Page 6
(Andover Community Facility Group Report, Continued)
It was suggested the task force for the sports complex would first define the task and the time line
for reporting back to the Council. The main focus would be to look at real costs, location and
financing options.
It was agreed to have the Mayor suggest the members to be appointed to the task force with the
Council to make the appointments at the next regular meeting.
Mayor Gamache declared the meeting adjourned. 9:28 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
~tlQ o~_~Q
Marcella A. Peach
Recording Secretary