HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP December 11, 2002
CITY OF ANDOVER
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W.. ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923. WWW.CLANDOVER.MN.US
Special City Council Meeting
YMCi\ Community Center Report
VVednesday, December 11,2002 at 7:00 p.m.
Council Charnbers - Meeting will be Televised
i\genda
1. Call to Order
2. YMCi\ Report Presentation
3. Council Discussion
4. i\ction Items
5. Other Business
6. i\djoum
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CITY of ANDOVER
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING - YMC4 COMMUNITY CENTER REPORT-
DECEMBER 11, 1002 MINUTES
The Special City Council Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike
Gamache, December 11,2002, 7:06 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW,
Andover, MinnesoÙL
Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude
CounciImember absent: None
Also present: City Administrator, John Erar
Others
AGENDA APPROVAL
Motion by Trude, Seconded by Jacobson, to approve the Agenda as written. Motion carried
unanimously.
YMC4 REPORT PRESENTATION
Ms. Marcia Niebuhr, Anderson-Niebuhr & Associates, presented the research and results of the
YMCA survey. She stated the main purpose of the research is to assess whether a YMCA can be
sustained in Andover. The YMCA is considering jointly managing a new Community Center that
would include a recreational, health, and fitness facility. The research assessed the respondent's
image and awareness of the YMCA in general, their desired programming and facilities of a YMCA
in Andover, respondents' interest in a YMCA membership, respondents' likelihood to join a YMCA
in Andover, their support for a YMCA becoming part of their cornmunity and market projections for
a YMCA in Andover.
Ms. Ivy Lobe stated the population of interest for this study is residents within a 5-mile radius of
Andover. Anderson-Niebuhr obtained a list of households within the defmed geographical radius.
From this list, Anderson-Niebuhr drew an equal probability random sample of 350 households.
To construct the questionnaire, Anderson-Niebuhr met with representatives from the YMCA and·
City of Andover to discuss the issues and topics to be addressed in the survey. Using information
from these discussions, Anderson-Niebuhr prepared a draft survey that was reviewed by the YMCA
and City of Andover representatives. The questionnaire was pretested with a random sample of ten
residents. Anderson-Niebuhr made recommendations for changes based on the pretest results; the
questionnaire was then revised and fmalized.
Ms. Lowe discussed the first survey questions with the Council.
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - December 11, 2002
Page 2
Ms. Niebuhr discussed the interests people had in the YMCA activities. Water activities are a large
part of activities wanted. She stated they looked at people who wanted to join versus people who did
not want to join and the numbers are higher with people who want to join.
Ms. Lowe stated they surveyed seniors for their interest in the YMCA. She stated there was a
huge interest for rehabilitation program for arthritis and joint replacement patients and senior day
trips.
Ms. Niebuhr stated they also surveyed for youth programming. There was large interest in after
school swimming lessons for all age groups and family swim night. She stated it was important
to look at after school and before school child care and even though there was a large amount of
people who did not want it, there was still some interest for it.
Ms. Lowe stated they informed people that the City of Andover is considering a partnership with
the YMCA to jointly manage a Community Center that includes a recreational, athletic, and
fitness facility. Ninety-three percent of the 350 people surveyed thought it would have a positive
impact on the cornmunity. The next question was in regard to two different payment structures.
She stated the survey was divided fairly even between a monthly fee and a fee for each use.
In the survey the respondents were told membership costs would be discounted for the residents
of Andover only who pay taxes to the City and would be $41 per month for an individual
membership, and $66 per month for a family membership. Fifteen percent indicated they would
definitely join, thirty-one percent would probably join and twenty-nine percent may join. The top
three reasons for not joining were they would not use it enough, they belong to another club and
it is too expensive. She stated most would join with a family membership. For the rest of five-
mile radius, minus Andover, the monthly fees would be $47 for an Individual membership and
$70 for a family membership. She stated seven percent would definitely join, twelve percent
would probably join and thirty seven percent would may be join and the reasons for not joining
were it was too far from home, too difficult to get there, too expensive and already have a
membership.
Ms. Niebuhr and Ms. Lowe continued reviewing the survey questions with the Council and
YMCA.
Ms. Lowe stated they surveyed the different factors influencing the respondents' decision to join
the YMCA in Andover and eighty-eight percent felt cleanliness of the facility would be a great
influence and cost of memberships would be the second greatest factor. They asked people if
they would like to see the YMCA part of their community. Eighty-six percent would like to see
the YMCA become part of their community and only six percent do not want the YMCA in
Andover.
Ms. Niebuhr stated the market projections were calculated based on two key questions asked in
the survey - Andover taxpayers' likelihood to purchase a membership to a YMCA at a
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - December 11, 2002
Page 3
discounted cost and non-taxpayers' likelihood to purchase a membership to a YMCA at regular
price.
Ms. Niebuhr stated the population size from Andover is 7,441 households and the population for
non-residents is 20,459. The maximum potential to join the YMCA would be 1,116 for
taxpayers and for non-taxpayers it would be 1,432. What that means financially is with 1,972
new memberships they would bring in about 1.5 million dollars in annual revenue for the
Andover area and 2.3 million dollars for the rest of the area that are non-taxpayers. When added
together the potential new memberships would be 5,021 and projected income would be 3.8
million.
Ms. Niebuhr stated the three key messages from this are the community has a positive image of
the YMCA and a strong interest in having a YMCA in Andover. The indoor water park is very
important to people along with cardiovascular machines. The survey data suggests a strong
potential membership base exists.
Councilmember Trude stated she understands they used the zip codes from the fringes but some
of these cities are further away than five miles. Ms. Niebuhr stated the list company can take a
radius and take a portion of each zip code in the area. Councilmember Trude stated the
information from the fringes, if taken out, would change the numbers of the survey. Ms. Niebuhr
stated it is not diluting the numbers and if anything will make the numbers stronger.
Councilmember Trude stated she did not see any interest in daycare for the YMCA. Ms. Niebuhr
stated the before and aft~ school care was pretty large. Councilmember Trude stated there is a
strong home base ~,d.vvl51s,t"nfin Andover and there is not the shortage in the cornmunity for
daycare like in other co=unities and also the schools have an excellent program too. Ms.
Niebuhr stated they still have a fourteen percent interest in after school child care. The Monday
through Friday full time summer care program for school aged kids was at twenty-two percent
great deal of interest and thirty percent some interest and she thought that was higher than other
communities surveyed. o..-\~ \ - 1 -03
Councilmember Trude stated the water theme had a large interest because of all the schools pools
being closed. She asked if in the survey it was distinguished between a lap pool and the water
theme pool. Ms. Niebuhr stated she did not think it was distinguished.
Councilmember Trude stated they did not get into the gym stuff at all. Ms. Niebuhr stated this
was part of the youth activities.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if there was anything in their survey that jumped out compared
to other cities' surveys. Ms. Niebuhr stated the numbers were stronger especially with the water
themes.
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - December 11, 2002
Page 4
COUNCIL DISCUSSION
Ms. Pat Lynch, YMCA, stated this is the strongest survey done for them to date. The biggest issue is
they had better be very careful for the potential for growth.
Councilmember Jacobson stated they are projecting five thousand memberships which are families
and the biggest negative is overcrowding. He asked if the plans for the space are adequate. Ms.
Lynch stated they would want to sit down again and look at what the right kind of space is and this is
a consideration they need to look at
Mr. Erar stated in reviewing other community centers, the size recommended by the task force is a
very appropriate fit. He stated the task force is recommending 110,000 square feet and he agrees
they should look at the numbers again and make sure they are in the ballpark.
Councilmember Orttel stated it would be wise to look more closely at the ability to expand. Mr. Erar
stated when they look at the building mass and as they move forward, one of the items is the site
mastering aspect of this which is the parking facilities and ability to expand.
Councilmember Knight stated if they are talking about expansion, they would need to look at
additional parking. . ~~
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Councilmember Trude asked if they need to look at ho~e YMCA feels the ice peY3peeâvc is in
getting memberships. It did not come up at all in the survey because it is part of the City's function,
which is separate from the YMCA. Ct.i"Yì et\A.u:i \-\-0::'
Mayor Gamache stated on those types of things they could have parking on both ends of the
complex. One end would serve the YMCA and the other would serve the hockey arena or field
house. Councilmember Knight asked if they would have room for that. Mr. Erar stated they have to
keep in mind there is parking west of the water tower and City Hall and they have the ability to
expand to the west. In terms of the site location, he does not see anything here that would change.
Councilmember Jacobson questioned the fund raising activities. Ms. Lynch stated they would
anticipate doing joint fundraising with one campaign, which would make most sense to donors. They
have met with the fundraising consultants and said they believe their board and volunteers would
want some input into the way they would bring their case to the donors.
Mr. Erar stated Mr. Mazell told him that if everything were in place, the YMCA would come at the
beginning of the capital campaign fund raising effort and be part of a permanent representation on
the capital campaign committee and work hand in hand with the City and Saterbach. He stated the
Resolution presented to Council a month ago, which was left pending until the survey was done, did
indicate the YMCA would lend its name to the fundraising.
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - December 11, 2002
Page 5
Councilmember Jacobson stated someone indicated they did not want the building to be started until
the fundraising was done. Mr. Erar stated this is correct. Ms. Lynch stated they anticipate they will
engage in all of the design components and have the building ready and fundraise at the same time.
She stated if the fundraising campaign gets into gear quickly, they would not need to wait another
year. The history has been that the YMCA can move fairly quickly.
Councilmember Knight stated the dire need is the hockey arena and asked if there is any objection to
this starting before the fundraising is completed. Ms. Lynch stated she did not believe there would
be a problem with this.
Councilmember Knight asked if there was no exception to this starting before the fund raising ends.
Ms. Lynch stated the concern is they do not put shovels in the ground before they ask for donations
and the overlap of this is that a construction project starts while there is still some cleanup being
done in the campaign so there is not a fixed break. They do not want to indicate the fundraising is
done by starting to build.
Mr. Jeff Collette, Andover High School Hockey Coach stated this seems like a slam-dunk and he is
in favor of the YMCA and the entire idea. He stated the hockey team plays its games in East Bethel
and it is not good for the kids or the program. Their ice time is late at night and this makes kids tardy
for school which does not make the school happy. There is a lot of discussion from parents about
leaving the City because of these issues. He stated there are issues that need to be dealt with down
the road. The girls' team has seventeen out of ninety days they have ice time and they are practicing
at four different rinks. He stated the ice arena would be filled and would be profitable. There is a lot
of interest for an ice arena in Andover and it would be a big plus for the community and hockey
program. He does know there is a lot of concern in the hockey cornmunity that they need something
or it will drift away. He stated if there is a way in the joint venture to push the ice arena up that
would be great because if they do not get an ice arena, they will lose players and he wanted to
express his concern as a hockey coach.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if the people who want to pay for the day versus monthly provide a
problem for the YMCA. Ms. Lynch stated it could if there were a large number of people who
would want this. They could have an option to bring people in occasionally on a daily basis such as
a friend or relative and this would not be a problem. The youths usually are on a per use basis and
they do have youth memberships.
Mr. Erar stated the next step in the process would be to solidifY the relationship by a Resolution that
has already been drafted and the Council should review this for adoption.
Councilmember Orttel asked if Mr. Dickinson had an opportunity to get the report yet. Mr. Erar
stated he did.
Councilmember Trude stated when she looked at the memberships, one third were from Andover and
as Andover grows, there gets to be a competition for space for all the activities and she wanted to
know if the YMCA has worked through this in the past. Ms. Lynch stated they have had to face the
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - December 11, 2002
Page 6
problem and she stated they would move into this as partners. What they would do is build practices
and policies around the fact that they want to make sure the partners are happy and they would honor
it as a partnership. Councilmember Trude stated they need the memberships from Coon Rapids,
Ham Lake and other surrounding communities also to make the Center work. Ms. Lynch stated what
they would do based on what they saw in the study is go to their space people and tell them they need
space that is different from what already exists. She stated proximity plays a big part in this.
ACTION ITEMS
Mr. Erar stated in light of the very positive survey data contained in the YMCA Survey Report, and
in anticipation of Council's support for the construction of a new Community Center, they have
developed a number of decision points the Council may wish to consider. A number of action items
will need to be considered to allow the community center project to advance and provide staffwith
direction regarding next step activities.
Mr. Erar stated the first item was to authorize the RFP for Construction Manager and Architectural
Services. The Council already authorized this and the RFP was reviewed and approved by the
Interview Connnittee.
Mr. Erar stated the second item is to develop a project cash flow statement. The preliminary cash
flows are completed and the final projections need to be based on a final project budget They cannot
develop or expect the YMCA to start negotiating a lease agreement until they know exactly what the
facility will be.
Ms. Lynch stated Mr. Casey Scott, the YMCA's Chief Financial Advisor has worked very closely
with Mr. Dickinson and they feel very confident about it.
Councilmember Orttel stated the facility would change based on what the people want. If they give
them more of what they want, this would increase the membership and revenue and they have to
assume it is good enough to do a facility. Projected memberships dictate a different kind offacility.
Mr. Erar stated in every project they begin with certain assumptions and they want to keep to a
budget figure that is reasonable and reflective of the cost they are likely to encounter. Part of the
process now is that the RFP would include a provision that essentially demands that all of the
consultants submit proposals based on a 110,000 square foot facility using various budget scenarios.
At this point they will need to wait for that information to come in. It is not typical but what the
Council has decided.
Councilmember Orttel asked what the projected time line is. Mr. Erar stated they had hoped to bring
information to the Council on February 4,2003.
Further discussion ensued regarding the projected cash flow statement and timeline.
Councilmember Jacobson stated he thought the most important thing they can do is to develop a
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - December 11, 2002
Page 7
timeline for all the items and stick to the dates. They need to start making some of these decisions,
which will force all the people and components to meet the timeline.
Mr. Frizwald stated the fact of the matter is there is a tremendous amount of hard work in making
any of these things to happen and they need to market and advertise and they are in competition with
everyone else. He stated from the YMCA's standpoint, it is their opportunity to serve but there is
going to be a lot of hard work getting there and they are ready to work with the City.
Mr. Erar discussed the third and fourth action items with the Council and YMCA.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if they have to have a referendum to put this on the property taxes.
Mr. Erar stated the referendum would suggest to the voting public that this facility will be primarily
tax levy support and that is not the concept or scheme recommended by the task force.
Councilmember Knight stated the item three is not locked in stone and if circumstances allowed,
they can move ahead before the 2004 deadline.
Councilmember Orttel asked if item four could be included in the February 4, 2003 meeting. Mr.
Erar stated in terms of the budget, the Council needs to determine what the final project budget will
be.
Councilmember Trude asked if the project budget would be set through the selection of the
construction management fIrm. Mr. Erar stated if the interview panel makes a recommendation for
one firm, then the Council will have the fmal decision as to whether to appoint that fIrm.
Mr. Erar discussed the fifth action item with the Council and YMCA. He stated it will be important
in putting together the capital campaign case, the profile and how the City intends to pay for this.
He stated one of the most consistent factors is consistency.
Mr. Erar discussed action items six through eight with the Council and YMCA.
Councilmember Orttel asked if the attorney should look at the Resolution before the Council
approves it. Mr. Erar stated the City Attorney would be involved.
Mr. Frizwald stated they have seen drafts but they have not formally taken action on the final form
but he did not believe this would be difficult because it outlines what they are going to try to
accomplish together and their values are compatible.
Mr. Erar discussed the last action item with the Council and YMCA.
Councilmember Orttel stated they could be into the fundraising before the [mal agreement.
Mr. Erar stated they met with Saterbach and the YMCA a few months ago and at that time it was
indicated the YMCA gave their ok to use Saterbach. Councilmember Orttel asked how this would
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - December 11, 2002
Page 8
work. Mr. Erar stated his understanding was they would allow the City to use their name, they
would be directly represented in the Capital Campaign Cabinet, and they would allow the City to use
some of their connections.
Councilmember Trude stated getting the use of the YMCA name is very substantial and helps the
efforts of the cornmunity members who come forward to volunteer to work on the campaign. There
is a real reluctance to write a check out to government and when they write a check out to the YMCA
they know what the funds will be used for. Ms. Lynch stated the only other thing they would put into
this is they want input in regards to the case statement. She stated they are blessed with a board of
very successful fundraisers and they would like to have the opportunity to influence the case. Mr.
Erar stated the YMCA would be involved right from the beginning.
Discussion continued regarding who the funds would be written to and where the funds would be
held.
Council consensus was to have Mr. Erar move forward with Saterbach to establish and finalize a
Phase IT Capital Campaign.
Mayor Gamache stated he would like the item, "Authorize Park Dedication Fees" put on the
December 17ili City Council meeting. Mr. Erar stated they should hold off on this item until
February 4, 2003 because it may be more of a timing element.
Mayor Gamache stated they should adopt the Joint Resolution at the December 17, 2002 City
Council Meeting.
Mr. John Anderson, 2350 I 49ili A venue stated he woUld like to commend Councilmember Jacobson
for bringing up the timeline on the action items and sticking to it. He stated he would also like to
address a flat fee for the fund raising and he would caution them against that type of structure unless
it is rear end loaded because easy money comes in right away. It is the fmal dollars that are hard to
come up with. He stated the lease agreement is an extremely important item to get behind both
properties.
Discussion was brought up by Mr. Erar regarding getting the County involved with the project like
what is happening in Sherburne County with the City of Elk River and the YMCA.
Mr. Kellogg stated he likes the creativity. He has had conversations with Commissioner Lang in the
last couple of months regarding the County helping with some of the funding. He stated he would
also like to see the Council put on their agenda what percentage of fund raising would be completed
before they would start to build.
Mayor Gamache stated they would have to have some discussion with Saterbach and the YMCA as
to how they would envision this working. Mr. Erar stated he has some ideas on how they can apply a
percentage as a performance even though they are offering a flat rate. He also believed the flat rate is
the way to go and if there is some way to index the payment of the flat rate based on performance,
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Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - December 11, 2002
Page 9
then they would be authorized a payment of a percent of the flat amount. He stated he also liked the
idea of back loading this so they have as much incentive as in the beginning.
Mr. Anderson stated he has seen some highway contracts granted with penalties in them so maybe in
the contract they could negotiate that so the timelines do not get dragged out. Councilmember Trude
stated this may be difficult because of the volunteer basis. Councilmember Orttel stated he believed
with the YMCA name, the amount could be higher than expected.
OTHER BUSINESS
There was no other business to discuss.
Motion by Orttel, Seconded by Jacobson, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting
adjourned at 9:24 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Osbeck, Recording Secretary
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