HomeMy WebLinkAboutSP August 27, 2002
CITY OF ANDOVER
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W.. ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755·8923. WWW.CLANDOVER.MN.US
Special City Council Meeting
Cornmunity Center Project
Conference Room A
Tuesday, August 27,2002
1. Call to Order - 7:00 p.m.
2. Further Review and Discussion/Community Center Project
3. Other Business
4. Adjournment
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CITY of ANDOVER
SPECIAL ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL MEETING - AUGUST 17, 1001
MINUTES
A Special City Council Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike
Gamache, August 27,2002, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW,
Andover, Minnesota.
Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude
Councilmember absent: None
Also present: City Finance Director, Jim Dickinson
City Administrator, John Erar
Others
AGENDA APPROVAL
There were no changes.
Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Knight, to approve the Agenda as amended above. Motion
carried unanimously.
REVIEW PROJECT SCHEDULES AND ACTIVITIES
Mr. Erar stated the City Council has requested information regarding anticipated project completion
timelines for the proposed Community Center under three different scenarios. Project Schedules
have been prepared for Council review. Time estimates are based on a typical 5-day work week,
with the exception of construction activity, which is based on a six day work week for on-site
contractors.
Mr. Erar stated there were three scenarios for the Community Center Project. The first is Council
Authorized Project in September 2002, the second scenario is Special Voter Referendum in
November 2002 and the third scenario is Special Voter Referendum in March 2003. He discussed
the three scenarios with the Council and showed the project schedule.
Councilmember Trude asked what the difference was between an owner's representative and a
construction manager. Mr. Erar stated an owner's representative does not have as much control or
authority. He stated with this type of project an owner's representative would be a better value. He
stated it is more cost effective to have a general contractor with an owner representative.
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Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - August 27, 2002
Page 2
Mr. Erar stated the schedule would be timed to coincide with all the Council meetings as long as
there would not be any problems.
Councilmember Orttel asked if they needed an architect when the building is prefab. Mr. Erar stated
design is still involved so they would still need an architect for this. He stated they have put together
ideas of what they wanted in the Community Center but the architect is the one that actually designs
it.
Mayor Gamache asked if they would be getting infonnation from the architects along the way and
when they have the neighborhood meetings. Mr. Erar stated the Council would probably have two
Council workshops during this time and will also be updated on the progress of the proj ect.
Mr. Erar stated the best time to bid out this project is usually the early part of the year but if
everything ran smoothly, they could possibly bid in late fall if the construction plan could be
completed in the fall of2003. He stated he did not think they would get the best bids in the late fall.
They would be better off bidding it in the early spring. Councilmember Trude thought that time
was money and the longer they wait, the more it would cost. Mr. Erar stated that the three building
experts who were consulted felt that using a project schedule was a very aggressive timeframe. Mr.
Gary Shibrowski asked if someone is not going to give a good bid in the fall, why would they give a
good bid in the spring. Mr. Erar stated if these things could be done quicker, they could bid them out
in the fall. Mr. Frank Kellogg stated the economy would playa factor. Mr. Jeff Hansel stated if the
economy remained the way it is, it would not matter when they bid out a project. Mr. Erar stated
that typically the best time to bid is in the beginning part of the year because contractors are looking
for work instead of being too busy to take the time to give a good bid.
Mr. Erar stated the construction schedule is built upon a Monday through Saturday timeline.
Councilmember Jacobson asked why they do this. Mr. Erar stated this is based on deadlines and
some construction companies will have their men at the site five days a week and some will have
them there six days a week depending on the deadline.
Mr. Kellogg asked what occurs with the CS person after the facility is done and is it approved. Mr.
Erar stated that it is in the budget and the CS person would actually manage the facility after it
opens.
Mayor Gamache stated with the March referendum there would be little time to get the design done
for bidding in the fall. Mr. Kellogg stated the average home at $150,000 would be hit about
$300.00. He asked ifit would it be wise to have a special referendum. He stated personally he would
wait until the next election.
Mr. Erar reviewed the Architect and Construction Manager with the Council. He stated he
recommended not hiring anyone until the Council decides if they want to do the project and to
identify the funding first.
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Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - August 27, 2002
Page 3
Mayor Gamache asked if anyone had any ideas on how the process could be shortened. He stated
the project budget is indicated to be light. Councilmember Knight stated that they have had three
public meetings where infonnation was given regarding the cost of the project. If the project ends up
costing more, there would be a credibility problem with the Council and the residents.
Mr. Kellogg asked what has transpired from February 2002 to today that would suggest the numbers
are wrong. Mr. Erar stated the task force amounts have always been viewed as preliminary numbe-s
and some costs have been indicated as being light. The $9.9 million is thought to be light. Mr.
Kellogg stated the numbers included much of what has been discussed. He stated the intent was to
bring a great user value. He is troubled to hear after two years of discussion that this issue was never
brought up to the task force. Mr. Erar stated he believed from the beginning, the amounts were tight
and discussed that they were tight. The entire process to the task force has included preliminary
costs. Gary Shibrowski stated he thought they had come forward with a recommendation in the
report and he did not think they could afford a higher priced project. Mr. Erar stated he was
suggesting the Council validate the numbers. He was not suggesting they cut out anything or raise
the budget for the project. Mr. Erar stated from the beginning they looked at an amount that they
wanted to stay under and they set up the project based on this.
Councilmember Jacobson stated if the cost of the structure were twelve million when finished and
Saterbach found three million in donations, there was a variability and this would bring the amount
down to nine million. Councilmember Orttel stated the three million in donations was supposed to
bring the amount down to six million. Councilmember Jacobson stated the public has been told all
along that nine million would be needed to make the project happen and this would be public money.
Councilmember Knight asked Mr. Hansel how many projects Greystone has constructed. Mr.
Hansel stated they constructed three centers.
Councilmember Orttel asked who would do the validation. Mr. Erar stated he thought they would
use two architectural finns to bring them some numbers.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if the $9.9 million include the expanding of the parking lot, sewer
expansion and other items. Mr. Dickinson stated this was included in the budget.
Mr. Kellogg presented a proposal for Greystone to perfonn a preliminary design scope of work.
Mr. Hansel presented the Council with a proposal for the Community Center. Mr. Kellogg asked
what the cost and timeline was to build the Blaine Center. Mr. Hansel stated it was a five month
project with packages bid early and the cost was $3.5 million. Councilmember Trude asked if
Greystone has a dedicated architect that always works with them. Mr. Hansel stated this is true.
Councilmember Jacobson asked how the proposal fit into the State time lines that the City has to
operate under. Mr. Hansel stated the proposal is a typical timetable and meets all the State criteria as
far as the construction documents.
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Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes -August 27,2002
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Mr. Erar asked how they could design this and bid on this. Mr. Hansel stated they are acting as the
Construction Manager. Councilmember Trude asked if they would still hire contractors on a bid
process. Mr. Hansel stated this is true. Mr. Erar stated that if you have the same company design
and build this, there is not a check and balance system. If one firm does it all there could be some
conflict and this does not make him comfortable. Councilmember Trude asked how Mr. Hansel
would describe checks and balances. Mr. Hansel stated the CSM would come in at the design stage
and check over the work. Gary Shibrowski stated the engineers have to have licenses and by signing
off they are certifÿing their work was done correctly.
Councilmember Orttel asked Mr. Erar if the architect has a checklist. Mr. Erar stated there is an
owner representative that overlooks the project and makes sure it is in balance.
Councilmember Or¡tel stated they decided they would not start construction until they were
underway on the Capital Campaign. Mr. Erar stated they would still continue with the architectural
design while involved with the Capital Campaign. Councilmember Orttel stated his main concern is
the structural integrity of the building. Mr. Kellogg stated the idea ofthis discussion was to validate
what the task force has done in the last year.
Mr. Erar discussed the other aspects of the schedules and activities with the Council.
Councilmember Ortte1 asked if the Stakeholder Design Team would be the same as the Management
Board. Mr. Erar stated this would be different than the Community Center Advisory Board (CCAB).
He stated the Board is advisory because the ultimate authority is the Council.
Councilmember Jacobson stated they need to first validate the cost and then see if they are going to
set up a referendum and then set about starting the charitable organization. Mayor Gamache stated
they needed someone to run the facility. Mr. Erar stated they needed to hire a person at least six
months before the facility opened and this person would run the entire park system in the City.
REVIEW REVISED PROJECT PRO FORMAS
Mr. Dickinson stated the YMCA's involvement in the facility is included in the proformas. He
discussed the YMCA's involvement in the facility with the Council. He reviewed with the Council
the revised project pro formas.
Councilmember Trude asked what the role of the YMCA is. Mr. Dickinson stated they would be
managing what the YMCA usually manages, which is families and children. CouncilmemberTrude
stated residents are concerned with the YMCA fee possibly involved with the facility.
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Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - August 27, 2002
Page 5
Councilmember Knight stated he had two concerns. One was the weeknight use of the aquatic
facility and whether there is a provision for non-members. Mr. Dickinson stated there would be that
option.
Mr. Erar stated the YMCA is the best case scenario and if that portion is not included, then the
facility would lose money from the start. Mr. Hedin stated some of the aquatic associations would
like to schedule time and it does not show up in the report. Mr. Dickinson stated that this would
need to go through the YMCA.
Mr. Erar suggested the Council reimburse YMCA half of the cost for the market study as long as
they continue to move forward with the City as a partner and the City would get a copy of the market
study.
Mr. Tony Howard asked what residents would need to pay in order to use the facility. Mr. Dickinson
stated that non-resident members would be charged $82.50 a month per family and $42.00per month
for individuals. Residents would be charged $61.00 a month per family and $41.00 a month per
individual.
Councilmember Orttel asked why the rent is static for twenty years. Mr. Dickinson stated that he is
trying to get the YMCA to bring additional money up front to the facility. Councilmember Orttel
asked what basis of inflation was used. Mr. Dickinson stated inflation was looked at on a constant
basis of five percent per year.
Councilmember Jacobson asked what the all building pass would allow a resident to do. Mr.
Dickinson stated that it would allow a resident to use everything in the facility unless it is leased out
to some other organization such as a school activity. Mr. Erar stated the YMCA has run these
programs in other Cities and have been very successful. Councilmember Trude stated they need to
understand what they are getting into as a Council because they need to sell this to the residents.
The Council further discussed the options regarding the YMCA and the costs associated with them.
DISCUSS PROJECT FUNDING METHODOLOGIES
Mr. Erar discussed with the Council project funding methodologies.
PROPOSED CCAB STRUCTURE AND OPERATING PLAN
Mr. Erar stated the Council has discussed the need for an operating structure and business plan that
supports the self-sufficient nature ofthe Community Center. Developing a business plan associated
with the oversight, management and operations of the Community Center has been discussed by
Council relative to ensuring the facility is operated in a business-like manner to reduce the need for
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Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - August 27. 2002
Page 6
public subsidy. The Council may wish to consider the creation of a Community Center Advisory
Board (CCAB) that would be appointed by and accountable to the City Council.
Mr. Erar discussed the proposed Operating Structure! Business Plan with the Council.
STATUS OF YMCA PARTICIPATION
Mr. Dickinson discussed with the Council the status of YMCA participation in the Community
Center.
PROJECT BUDGET
The project budget was discussed with the Council.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Dave Assmus stated all of the questions brought up at this meeting are normal for this type of
project and more questions will continue to come up. Once there are answers, they can begin to
consistently give out information to the public.
Councilmember Knight asked to what degree can they push ahead even though Mr. Assmus' work is
not done. He asked if they should go ahead with the project with a ballpark figure. Mr. Assmus
stated they carmot do anything with the campaign until the City Council would decide to go ahead
with the project. He stated the steps outlined is an excellent progression that needs to be followed.
People will want to see a schematic on this.
Mayor Gamache suggested they ask the YMCA's opinion of what facility use would be and the use
of it to the swim teams.
Motion by Knight, Seconded by Orttel, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting
adjourned at 10:35 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Osbeck, Recording Secretary
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Special Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - August 27. 2002
Page 7
REGULAR ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES - AUGUST 17,1001
TABLE OF CONTENTS
AGENDA APPROV AL............................................................................................................. 1
REVIEW PROJECT SCHEDULES AND ACTIVITIES ......................................................... 1
REVIEW REVISED PROJECT PERFORMAS .......................................................................4
DISCUSS PROJECT FUNDING METHODOLOGIES ...........................................................5
PROPOSED CCAB STRUCTURE AND OPERATING PLAN ..............................................5
STATUS OF YMCA P ARTICIP ATION .................................................................................. 6
PROJECT BUDGET ................................................................................................................. 6
OTHER BUSINESS ......,........................................................................................................... 6
ADJOURNMENT...................................................................................................................... 6
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