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HomeMy WebLinkAboutWK September 23, 2003 ~ Ú/) C I T Y o F ~ ID~l-03 NDOVE 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100 FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS ITEMS Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 6:00 PM 6:00 PM - Fire Facilities Tour (Please meet in front of City Hall) AGENDA 1. Call to Order 2. Approve Agenda 3. (6:45 PM) Fire Station #3 Design Presentation 4. (7:00 PM) Community Center Project a. Business Plan Adoption b. Water Park Expansion Scenarios c. Memorandum of Understanding d. Facility Design Issues e. Other Project Issues 5. 2004 Budget Reduction Affected Services (If Time Permits) 6. Proposed 2004-08 CIP (Information Only) 7. Schedule Special City Council Meeting -October 8, 2003 8. Clocktower Commons - Receive Information 9. Other Business Items 10. Adjoum . . CITY o F NDOVE 1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304 . (763) 755-5100 FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US SPEClALANDOVER CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING -SEPTEMBER 23,2003 MINUTES The Special Workshop Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache, September 23, 2003,7:03 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude Councilmember absent: None Also present: City Engineer, Dave Berkowitz City Finance Director, Jim Dickinson Fire Chief, Dan Winkel City Administrator, John Erar Others FIRE STATION #3 DESIGN PRESENTATION Mod Feders indicated the design team listened to the comments on the various Fire Station building elevations and made changes accordingly, which resulted in a reduction of 1 000 square feet. He showed the Council three design options, noting they brought in material samples. Mayor Gamache asked if all the designs work with the new square footage. Mr. Feders stated they do. Mayor Gamache asked what material is used above the doors. Mr. Olds indicated it is a flat metal panel, noting the roof could be a different color or the same color. Councilmember Orttel asked ifit is baked enamel metal, such as early 60's style. Mr.OIds indicated that is correct. He showed the Council a brochure highlighting the material. Mayor Gamache asked if elevation 1 was brick. Mr. Feders stated it is; each has some metal panel and some brick. Mayor Gamache asked if the cost of each scenario is the same. Mr. Feders indicated the cost is the same; all the designs can be done within budget. They discussed the pros and cons of each plan, indicating the preference is to have more brick on the front rather than the metal panels, and to mask the silo effect of the host tower. Mr. Feders stated the difference between elevation two and three is the clear gable roof on elevation two would eliminate clear story light, while elevation three allows that naturallight. He suggested they take what the Council likes ITom elevation two and incorporate it into three. There were comments about the side elevation looking too much like a horse barn, and Mr. Feders stated they could try to modifY it so it breaks up the lines better. He indicated they would take the Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 2 Council's suggestions and come up with a final design. Mayor Gamache asked if the inside space had been reduced. Mr. Feders indicated they took all the comments from the last meeting and incorporated them into the new plan. Each of the spaces was compressed, and they took out over 1000 square feet. He thinks right now this plan still works, but if they were to get any smaller it would hurt the function of the building. Mayor Gamache confmned it would have three drive-through doors, which is correct. Councilmember Trude indicated the last station they visited had the family room set-up. She asked if it was hard to have everything together. Chief Winkel indicated it is good to have the communication room separate, indicating they have a petition to divide that portion of the space. Mayor Gamache asked if there were any questions on the budget. Chief Winkel indicated he has revised the budget for the 1000 square foot reduction. It is currently $1.5 million to $1.6 million, and he believes they can stay close to that amount with any of the designs. Councilmember Trude asked if the Chief has had input ITom the fire fighters. Chief Winkel indicated he has spoken with them, and will go back to them when they have a more definite design. Councilmember Jacobson suggested that they stay close to the other stations with the colors they choose. Councilmember Orttel added it is a large roof; they need to choose a color that will not be overwhelming in that quantity. CLOCKTOWER COMMONS City Engineer Berkowitz explained that since the last City Council meeting the discussion has been what road improvements would be needed for Clocktower Commons. He advised the County currently has the plan for review and comments. The cost range is $210,000 to $230,000, depending on ditching. City Staff ran an estimate which was very similar. He advised they had requested a full raised concrete median, but that has since been changed to just stripping requirements. He indicated a section on the map where right turn, left turn and a through-way lane had been required, which has since been changed to allow a left turn lane and a right turn or through-way lane. Councilmember Trude stated they are still showing the turn starting at Yellow Pine; she felt that was a long way back. Mr. Berkowitz indicated it is, but is still required. He indicated the other discussion was on stacking; he stated right now they show it at 150 feet, but may need 300 feet. Councilmember Trude asked if they looked at financing options. Mr. Berkowitz stated the discussion was to have the developer contribute; however they have not talked about City contributions. Councilmember Trude indicated there was talk about cost sharing because of the traffic at that intersection. City Administrator Erar stated the engineer feels these improvements Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 3 should not include City contributions. Discussion ensued about County and City contributions to these improvements. Councilmember Jacobson indicated he does not see why the developer cannot use Bluebird as it is, or spend the money himself to improve it ifhe so chooses. Mr. Erar indicated it should be noted City Staff, not just the County, also recommends the improvements outlined. He stated if the Council is rejecting these recommendations they are rejecting Staff's opinions. Mr. Lazan, Landform, indicated this is a tough issue. He stated if it were his choice he would renew his request to access off Bluebird to get the project started and go back to the County and ask for a right in, right out. Councilmember Trude stated they would need to take out the conditions concerning the traffic study and road improvements. Mr. Dickinson indicated it would be condition 5, which addresses the traffic study, and condition 8, the fmancial guarantee on traffic improvements. Councilmember Orttel indicated they can take out the need for County approval; however, the problem is the development will not survive out there if they do not have access. Councilmember Knight asked what the comment is ITom the County. Mr. Berkowitz indicated their first comment is that the City is making a mistake if they do not require improvements. Motion by Councilmember Trude, seconded by Councilmember Jacobson to approve the Clocktower Commons project, eliminating condition 5 and removing the-first sentence of condition 8. ~ù\Îd [U'Y\.L1ìcu-d \o/Î--03 Mr. Erar indicated if the development agreement goes forward and they do not get fmancial surety in that agreement there is nothing to ensure improvements will take place. City Attorney Hawkins agreed there is no obligation if it is not in the development agreement. Mr. Berkowitz indicated they could make some arrangements through assessments. Mr. Dickinson believes it is important to require some portion of improvements and attach financial surety to them. Councilmember Orttel asked if they could legally do that. City Attorney Hawkins stated they could not hold the money indefInitely; it would need to have a timeframe attached to it. Mr, Lazan stated his concern is if they arrive at a number that is determined to be his share there is no assurance the other share would be forthcoming. He asked how he would know the money would not be escrowed for ten years until the County decides to make improvements. Mr. Dickinson indicated they would need a time, but he does think some improvements will have to be done. Councilmember Orttel reiterated the development would need the improvements or it will not survive. People will not go in to the development if it is hard to get in and out. Mr. Lazan indicated therè are some bargaining items. He stated they have used the paved shoulders to do the lane widening, and provided class 5 shoulders. They reduced the stacking lane to 150 feet arbitrarily, and the County could say 300 feet is needed. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 4 Councilmember Orttel does not believe they have enough information to proceed. Mr. Berkowitz indicated they gave the County until 9/26 to approve the plan. Councilmember Jacobson indicated if they approve this the developer can go ahead and dump everything on Bluebird Street. He added when they platted Bluebird Street it was put in to handle this. Mr. Erar noted they will have traffic coming off Crosstown with no turn lane. Mr. Lazan stated he brought this up at the September 2 meeting, indicating at that time he was concerned about the timeline. He stated if the Council approves this now he will work like crazy to get the development agreement and everything else needed done in time. He stated 20 days later they are no closer and if they wait until October 7 there is no way he can get in the ground this fall. Mayor Gamache indicated he is not comfortable with the concessions. Councilmember Orttel indicated he thought they had talked about minimal improvements that would be necessary and that is what they would require. Mr. Berkowitz stated those minimal improvements equal the $230,000, and the developer has said he does not have that. Councilmember Orttel commented all developers will say they do not have the money. This development will need a right turn in and out or it will sit empty. Motion carried 3:2. Councilmember Orttel and Mayor Gamache opposed. AGENDA APPROVAL Motion by Councilmember Jacobson, Seconded by Councilmember Trude, to approve the Agenda as amended. Motion carried unanimously. COMMUNITY CENTER PROJECT muS \c1\.0sK.... Mayor Gamache stated he invited DaI} ~{~ltnJ¡e to join them and tell the Council what he does in Champlin. Mr. Maslosku iRa'iéd°C'fiàÌÌ1plin operates with a Park and Recreation Director, who has three people under him. He is one of those three people. His job has been 70% at the arena since it was built. He explained his duties, which include selling arena time and marketing. (YV\SI6~ Councilmember Trude asked what the City's agreement is with Lifetime. Mr. MflSleske stated they have a joint wall and that is about all. He noted Lifetime gave them some passes, and they have an agreement on parking. He advised they do two yearly events with Lifetime; a 10K race and a swimming event, but he has found Lifetime uses it more as a marketing campaign than anything else. mús10,osi\ rmsl Dw.9.(1 Councilmember Orttel asked if Mr. Masle3ke's duties are only with ice. Mr. Maslosko- indicated there are two conference rooms and the ice. He stated the rooms are used Monday Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 5 through Friday and are occupied most days. They also do birthday parties on Saturday and Sunday. ff\ü.~o-...ov..:\ ~~i0-- Councilmember Orttel asked if Mr. .MæJleskð" has other staff. Mr. gkø- advised there are two positions on the park side, and two and a half on the arena side. Councilmember Orttel asked if they have concessions. Mr. ~b~!iidicated they lease that out to the Hockey Association. It takes the headache away from the arena staff and gives the Hockey Association revenue. n'QsIOL()~..4 Councilmember Orttel asked if the arena has much open time available. Mr. Mæ;losko stated they have some time open. . mq",\o'-...)c;.~ Councilmember Knight asked who supervises the arena when it is in use. Mr. ModQsko indicated they have two supervisors with alternating schedules, and have a part-time park person with them during events. \Y):.t ç I Q0":. '"-'- Councilmember Jacobson asked if they have any administrative support. Mr. Mæ3loske indicated that support is at the Public Works department. Councilm~ber Trude asked about the relationship with the person who supervises Mr. 1faifô~;;"s iv'Çril, who is in the adjacent building. And how often they are in contact. Mr. ~~~'i~ it was daily contact. He advised they have Monday morning meetings to go through the week, and the adjacent building is also where his Park staff is housed, so he goes to that building often. He indicated they also communicate via email regularly. Councilmember Trude indicatedrd~liveries are often during the day, and asked how they coordinate that. Mr. ]J;)~t¡fsRO'ii1fuCated they never let the building sit open and unattended. If he leaves for any reason he communicates that to the maintenance person. 'IlkS¡ÒlùÇ.14 Mr. leskc indicated what they do at Champlin will not work for everyone. He advised there are many organizations Andover can contact for suggestions, noting the Park and Recreation Association is a good resource. APPROVE BUSINESS PLAN City Administrator Erar advised that on August 25, 2003, Council was presented with a draft Business Plan for the City of Andover/YMCA Community Center. He indicated since that time, Staffhas been in contact with many potential contributors and supporters of the project who have expressed their comments and feelings regarding this plan. Mr. Erar stated Council directed Staff to distribute the draft Business Plan to individuals who the campaign consultant considered to be key potential contributors to the project. He indicated his Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 6 office received this list and copies of the draft business plan and organizational chart were mailed to those on the list. Staff contacted a majority of the persons on a list prepared by Saterbak and Associates for their comments regarding this proposed business plan. He indicated that those contacted indicated interest in fmancially supporting the project, and expressed no concern over the proposed management plan. He stated they heard comments that the YMCA was a big factor in willingness to fmancially support the project. Mr. Erar advised Harold Mezille, YMCA President and CEO, has indicated he is fully supportive of the draft Business Plan and felt itwas well considered, reflecting appropriate business values and management practices. Mr. MeziIle indicated that is was appropriate for the City to hire and manage its own staff and that Boards should focus on policies and outcomes and not on directly involving themselves with personnel management or other micro-management issues. Mr. Erar noted that the overriding theme of those surveyed regarding the draft business plan is that is was well conceived and written, and they had no concerns with municipal management of the facility. None of those surveyed indicated that they had a problem with the project prior to receiving the business plan other than a general desire to obtain more information on how the facility would be managed. Mr. Erar stated that with respect to a private management fIrm, Staff is hard pressed to fmd fIrms that would be interested in operating a field house and ice arena, as the margins will be extremely tight and/or non-existent. Similarly, feedback from some of the potential contributors suggest they would have a problem with allowing a private management firm to extract a profit, while at the same time publicly subsidizing the portion of the facility under the management control of a private fIrm. Councilmember Trude indicated there are comments in the August 25th minutes about statutory authority. She indicated Mr. Erar stated it is not legal to set up"a board however they have legal opinion otherwise. She would like to have City Attorney Hawkins give them his opinion. Mr. Erar indicated if they go back to the business model of August 25th there is a section on governance that talks about a citizen advisory board. He does not recall saying it is illegal. He indicated in the memo from Mr. Hawkins he stated more research is needed. City Attorney Hawkins indicated the statute cited in his memo is not terribly comprehensive. He noted it talks about recreational facilities run by a municipality, and read the statute. He indicated the statute indicates the City Council has the authority to appropriate money to the board, and the board can accept gifts. He believes this is enabling legislation to allow the City Council to appoint a board. Councilmember Jacobson asked if it has to be a non-profit board or if it can be for profit. City Attorney Hawkins indicated it does not really specifY. He believes the City Council could invest them with whatever powers the Council chooses. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 7 Councilmember Orttel asked ifunder that authority they hired employees, would they be City employees. City Attorney Hawkins indicated they would be; the City would have to bring them into the benefit plan. Councilmember Knight asked who would supervise those employees. City Attorney Hawkins stated it would be up to the City Council on how they want to set up the board. Councilmember Trude indicated there are a number of options to establish a board with powers versus an advisory board. Councilmember Jacobson asked if whatever they outline in the contract is okay as far as their governing capability. City Attorney Hawkins stated it is; however he cautioned the Council to remember the Board would be an agency of the City; if they do something incorrectly the Council will want to make sure the City is covered. Frank Kellogg stated one thing that comes to mind for a non-profit would be the potential positives for income that a non-profit may have available to them, such as grants. Councilmember Trude indicated a city can accept gifts. Mr. Dickinson indicated quite often when looking for grants, most organizations need a government sponsor to apply for them. Councilmember Orttel asked why they would not turn this over to the Park Commission. Councilmember Jacobson stated the concern he has heard is that this does not become a subsidy year after year. Eventually it should become a profit center, and he believes whoever runs it should have the ability to market it and pursue options so it becomes a profit center, with reporting directly to the City Council. Mayor Gamache stated he believes when they hire a person to run the facility that person would have the ability to do that. He does not know if setting up a board and giving them oversight ability is the right thing. He was glad to see those who provided cornments agreed with the plan. He advised the campaign committee has reached a point where they need a decision on the Business Plan and pro forma to continue raising money. Councilmember Jacobson indicated he was thinking the City Council would create a citizen oversight board that would consist of one City Council member, one YMCA representative and three citizens-at-Iarge. He indicated this board would: · Adopt policies affecting Co=unity Center operations · Establish performance standards for facility operations to help minimize annual public subsidies · Establish service objectives and goals that support the professional management of the facility · Respond to general citizen requests or service issues affecting use of the facility by the public · Reco=end an annual operating and capital improvement budget to the Council. · Report directly to the City Council Councilmember Orttel indicated that is like the Park Commission. Councilmember Jacobson stated the difference is they would come directly to the City Council. He indicated the board Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 8 would hire a person or fIrm to run the facility, and the board would report directly to the City Council. The person hired would be a City employee but would not report to the City Administrator; the facility would be an independent arm. Mayor Gamache asked why they would want a board to hire someone rather than going through the normal City hiring process. Councilmember Jacobson stated the idea is to have the operation as independent as possible. Mayor Gamache stated if they set it up the same as their contract with Mr. Erar, he does not see the need for a board. Councilmember Knight indicated they have been telling people it will be run by an independent board, and this would be a change. He stated there is reluctance from the donating community and he does not want to jeopardize donations. He does not see an advantage to adding to the bureaucracy that exists. Councilmember Orttel stated if they put the City Council in charge it will be totally political, and to have the board report directly to the City Council will only enforce the politics. He indicated they are all aware the facility is going to lose money for the fust few years, and it will not be a business. He stated it has a huge social aspect, but will not be run like a business; it is something they are doing for the community. Councilmember Jacobson stated they all understand it will lose money for the fust fIve or six years, but the hope is to get it on the tax roles and make money, and government does not think that way. Mr. Erar commented that he believes this is totally political. He stated they are suggesting going around the structure the Council has created, and to go around the City Administrator is creating more bureaucracy. He stated all the cities surveyed have the Public Works department or Parks running their facilities, and if the Council has a problem with the City Administrator they should discuss that, which he is more than willing to do. Jackie Cherryhomes explained several of the models the City of Minneapolis has used. She indicated a management fIrm runs the Target Center, but that is a different model. She stated there are various models that can be used, but there is no way to take the politics out of it, and no way for the City Council to be completely off the hook. She discussed several methods that have worked for the City ofMinneapoJis and those that have not, noting that what they are suggesting is similar to the Housing Authority, where they created a Neighborhood Revitalization Committee and in the process created a huge problem. She stated there was not a clear chain of command and it was very difficult to govern. She indicated it is important the City does not lose control of the person running the facility. She does not believe reporting to the Council is a great idea, partly because they are not here all day, and even if they were it would not be a good use of their time. Ms. Cherryhomes indicated they would want to use the City's HR department to hire someone to eliminate favoritism and discrimination issues. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23. 2003 Page 9 Councilmember Trude stated one thing the public will want is to know where the facility is at fmancially. She indicated she hears often everything is co-mingled so how will you know. The board and manager will have to be accountable for the money. Ms. Cherryhomes stated the finances of the facility can be separated as enterprise funds. She indicated the Minneapolis parking ramps are a good example of this; the Council receives their statements as separate enterprise funds and can see they are making money. Councilmember Jacobson asked if it was safe to say there was not a problem with the idea of an oversight board. Mayor Gamache indicated he likes the board; his only issue is they need to keep it within the &amework of what is currently set up for government. He agreed the Council is not here eight hours a day and this enterprise should fit within the current &amework. Councilmember Trude asked why the person hired should not have the ability to make decisions. They will have experience. Mayor Gamache indicated the issue he has is he does not know why they would change the method they have for nmning the govemment. He does not see a problem with how it is currently set up. He noted they have been hearing positive comments ITOm donors. Councilmember Jacobson stated the only issue for the Council is whether it would be a separate entity reporting to the City Council or a department like Public Works. Councilmember Orttel stated he has never heard this issue outside this group. He believes people do not really care, He indicated his concern is when they had the Fire Department without a Chief. He received calls all the time because there was not a Chief for people to call. He indicated for utilities the Water Department handles the technical aspects but when it comes to something else it goes to Mr. Erar and he brings it to the Council. He expressed that the Council's job is to set policy, not manage little details. Councilmember Knight stated there is a difference between little details and big details. He indicated they could turn it over to Mr. Erar but they have people in the community concerned with that. He stated he has had two calls on it already. Councilmember Orttel asked how they could say the City is going to lose money and then pay a manager to manage that loss. Mr. Erar stated that no matter how they go about it, whether with a City employee or an independent fIrm, the facility is going to lose money. He indicated the ice arena will not make money, it is the advertising and marketing that makes money. He indicated the Council has seen all the surveys; a field house and arena cannot make enough to cover the debt load. Councilmember Jacobson stated maybe that is because those facilities do not have the leeway to run it right. Mr. Erar indicated Andover is already doing it differently because they are looking for a Director with a business background versus a leisurely service background. Councilmember Jacobson stated they need someone running this that can make it work. Mr. Erar indicated that as Councilmember Orttel has mentioned, if business could make this kind of a facility work the City Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 10 would not be talking about building a Community Center because business would already have done it. Councilmember Knight commented that they are prefacing all of their information on raising $3.5 million in donations. He had wanted Tony Howard to take the letters around but it did not happen that way. He does not know what that did to responses. Mr. Erar indicated he believes the answers he received were accurate. Councilmember Knight asked how he could know. Mr. Erar stated he knows many of these people. Councilmember Knight stated the point he is making is they are running a risk. If that is an acceptable risk, okay, but he does not want to go back and tell the community the tax impact is not $39 but is now $70. Mayor Gamache agreed, but stated if they receive a gift with strings it is not a gift. He knows a lot of cities are breaking even or are close to breaking even. He would give the authorization to HR to go out and find the best person for the job. Mr. Erar noted the Customer Service Satisfaction survey the City put out. He stated those were random responses and showed a 95% to 98% satisfaction. He indicated if the concern is trust in the City Administrator that is a separate issue. Councilmember Jacobson asked if there is an objection to trying something different for a few years and if it does not work out they could go back to the standard governing structure. Councilmember Orttel asked what they would do if it hinders donations. He indicated his idea is only to have a place for the kids to skate and swim. He does not want to micromanage it. Councilmember Trude stated golf courses and municipal liquor stores are run that way. Mr. Erar indicated they usually are not; typically the manager would report to the City Administrator. He stated he has never seen this kind of structure. The City Administrator is supposed to be there to handle issues with City employees. Councilmember Knight stated he has a problem putting the fundraising at risk. Councilmember Orttel indicated it is already at risk, which is why they hired a consulting fInn. Curt Saterbak stated the number one concern of the investors, those giving six figure donations, is will this be a sound investment. He indicated too many people make donations to build a community resource or non-profit building only to find out those running it cannot afford to heat it or the roof is leaking or the paint chipping. He stated that no matter what they do they will not get everyone to participate. Mr. Saterbak indicated many community investments such as this never expect to break even. It is an investment in the community. He stated this is a good project and a good investment. He indicated the next question is usually how you will maintain the building, and how you will operate. He advised a sound business plan helps enforce that those questions have been answered. He added the potential donors want the vision of the city. He indicated as far as the top donors are concerned, they do not care who hires the manager. They want to know it will be Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 11 run efficiently and the City needs to have a business plan to show it can work. He stated it is not much different than what potential investors want to see from a start-up company. He indicated it is important to let people see the forethought that went into these plans. Mr. Saterbak stated if the Council goes outside the City structure they will need to show the reason they are going outside. He indicated it could be perceived as a lack of trust, which is a much bigger issue than who will be hired and who will oversee. He stated Councilmember Orttel is completely correct when saying this is a community investment, and the City needs to show how they will keep it going. Donors want to see that their investment is sound. You present them with a strong plan, presented with passion, and the rest is up to them. Councilmember Jacobson stated he has heard some local business owners have said we want them to give a donation, but on top of that they will have to pay additional taxes on their property, and they want to know how soon that added tax will go away. He thinks that will be a question they hear, and that goes back to how efficiently the facility is run. The question is are they thinking like a non-profit or a for profit organization. Councilmember Orttel stated he has people often talk about a lot of blunt things with him, but has never once heard a question on the management of this facility. He indicated he called Stillwater, and he knows how that runs and that it keeps it off the Council's back, but it costs a lot of money and the City subsidizes it heavily. Mr. Saterbak indicated if they choose to go against the model the City has and try to do something new rather than what has proven to work, they would need to be able to show why and have an analogy of proven success. He believes they have successful analogies of the model the City uses, and can clearly show that. Councilmember Trude stated the people approached during the planning study were given something else. They will wonder why it has changed. She indicated this model has been out there and the City has received comments; now they have to do what is best for the City. Mr. Saterbak indicated he understands, but the campaign committee needs to know how to present it. Mr. Erar stated he keeps hearing this is not the same plan that was given to the public, which is incorrect. This has all the same elements and parts. Councilmember Knight stated the proposed board is more advisory. Mr. Erar disagreed. He indicated in this plan the board has more authority than any other City boards. CounciImember Jacobson stated the only difference is in having the board come directly to the City Council. Mr. Erar indicated that is a big difference. He stated he did not understand wanting to change the model. He indicated they have a successful model in Andover, and the campaign consultant and Administrator are telling the Council the same thing, yet the Council is suggesting they create a system that would double up on bureaucracy. Councilmember Jacobson stated he does not see the question. They all agree they will have a board, Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 12 so the only question is who that board will report to, and he wants someone who can react quickly and respond to issues. Mr. Erar asked if the Council did not believe the board would want the same reporting and decision making structure as the Council. Councilmember Orttel stated the board would be political because they would appoint it. Discussion ensued on what authority the board would have. Frank Kellogg stated this discussion dates back three years. He indicated throughout this process integrity has been challenged, as well as trust. People have talked about putting too much emphasis on special interests. He would challenge the City Council to put a plan together with integrity, no matter ""hat that plan is. He stated ""hat they need is something that vvill give them the best chance to meet the $3.5 million. On the other hand, they need to have forward thinking and determine what they will do if they come up short. He stated it is ultimately up to the City Council, but he encouraged them to bring forward a plan they can sell to the business community and residents. Councilmember Jacobson asked if it would be possible to adopt the governance model with the caveat the Council has not determined the reporting line yet. An audience member asked when they would make that decision. He indicated they have already lost Dave Assmus, and have been at a standstill for three months picking apart who will report to whom. He asked why the person would not report to the City Administrator. Mr. Saterbak indicated that one item is the crux of the plan. If the Council does not go with the way the structure is currently set up in the City they need to explain why. Mayor Gamache commented that Mr. Saterbak noted people buy into something because they know it will be run right. He stated people at least know the current model. Mr. Saterbak agreed, stating if the donors trust the way the City is running the government they will trust this. If they do not trust the government, no model will convince them the government can run a $16.5 million facility. He stated the other point is whatever the Council determines is the fundraising goal, that is what will be raised. People will not give over what they think the City needs. He added the other part of that is weighing donations with raising taxes. They will have to explain why business owners should donate money rather than just pay more in taxes. CounciImember Knight stated he has heard unease for three years with the City running this facility. Councilmember Trude stated when they fust talked about this, the City Council would not touch it if it was all tax money. She asked ifpart of the pitch they had to make to sell this was that it would not just be an extension of government. Frank Kellogg indicated they used a business model, but did not go into details; however the flavor of the model was that by year thirteen when the pro forma says they should be solvent, the subsidy would be gone. Discussion ensued on hiring a contract employee, paid for performance. Mr. Erar stated Councilmember Jacobson had asked if they could adopt the Business Plan without reporting lines. He indicated this plan does not specify reporting lines, it just says the City will manage the facility; whether a management firm or employee is not specified. Mayor Gamache stated they also need to remember they want to hire the best person, and for longevity they may have a hard time getting Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 13 someone to come in with a short-term goal agreement. Councilmember Trude stated they are also telling two stories; they are saying they will make it solvent in thirteen years and are also saying it is a black hole. Ifit is a successful project it cannot be a black hole. Mr. Erar stated the other revenue streams, such as marketing and advertising, are where they may make money. Motion by Councilmember Jacobson, Seconded by CouncilmemberTrude to approve the Operating Framework as follows: The YMCA will operate and manage the aquatic center, fitness center, and child's gym and childwatch programs. The City of Andover will operate and manage the Ice Arena, Fieldhouse, Community Room and Concessions. A facility manager will be responsible for the operation and management of all related facility activities including: » Hiring of seasonal employees to assist in the operation and maintenance of the Ice Arena; » Scheduling and programming ice time with user groups; » Organizing and scheduling tournament play; » Serving as a contact person with the public; » Addressing day-to-day operational issues. The Facilities Manager may also oversee limited operational and maintenance issues associated with the Fieldhouse and Concession; however, position responsibilities will need to be balanced and prioritized to meet the needs and demands of overseeing Ice Arena operations as the primary consideration. Ensuring customer service excellence in meeting the needs ofIce Arena users will be the first order of business for the Ice Arena manager. As the facilities are scheduled to open in October 2004, the City will have this position filled no later than the end of June 2004, with the assistant staffing positions filled no later than the beginning of September 2004. Seasonal help will need to be hired in mid-September. It is intended to ensure a financially self-sufficient business model. The managerial position would assume the following responsibilities: 1) Coordinate the marketing and promotion of the overall facility with special attention to the field house and ice arena; Aggressively develop marketing strategies and promotional opportunities to raise the profile of the facility in the surrounding market area with the goal of generating advertising revenues. 2) Oversee business management operations with respect to: a) Concession and vending sales and profit and loss responsibilities; b) Manage/generate space rental income opportunities, c) Cultivate business relationships in the Andover market through local Chambers of Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 14 Commerce, Rotary Clubs and other business forums d) Book future sporting and community events e) Explore potential other programming uses of City operated spaces for income generating possibilities. 3) Serve as a daily contact point with the public; interested user groups and YMCA operations staff to: a) Coordinate use of shared space; b) Respond to public inquiries for space rental opportunities; c) Conduct facility tours to potential customers; and d) Develop marketing strategies through printed materials. 4) Oversee the programming and scheduling of recreational/sporting/tournament events in the Fieldhouse. 5) Work through and oversee the day-to-day operational needs of the facility including responding to user requests and complaints, oversee contracted janitorial services, manage business operations in accordance with approved policies, and coordinate grounds maintenance. 6) Oversee management responsibilities for budgeting, staffing and planning responsibilities. 7) Develop an annual operating budget and capital improvement program similar to other City departments, as recommended by Community Center Oversight Board (CCOB) (see section below) and approved by the City Council 8) Oversee and ensure that the facility's business plan model is being complied with to minimize annual public subsidies and generate positive cash flow. 9) Upfront capitalization of staffmg costs would be underwritten through initial capital bond proceeds. Councilmember Jacobson stated these changes say the City will operate the facility but does not say how. He indicated they can hire a contract employee at a later date if they choose to. He stated this will start out the position without saddling it with parks and trails and other things. This would be best so the position can focus on the Civic Center. He stressed his motion only covers the Operating Framework. Motion carried unanimously. Councilmember Trude stated she thinks they are remiss not to mention the YMCA. She thinks it should be re-crafted to mention the YMCA. Mayor Gamache stated the YMCA is mentioned throughout the document. Councilmember Trude stated she has heard &om two school board members that they do not want to be associated with our project. They hear about how we are spending money on a Community Center and not on education. Motion by Councilmember Orttel, Seconded by Mayor Gamache to approve the Business Plan, with changes as outlined. Motion carried unanimously. Councilmember Knight stated he wanted to make the record clear; some of the delay is not getting information ITom the YMCA on costs. Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23. 2003 Page 15 Frank Kellogg asked what they should relay if the question comes up on the cost split with the YMCA. Mr. Erar stated it is anticipated to be a 50/50 split, but they are still looking at costs. Councilmember Trude asked if revenues have gone up to compensate for th1 sPlit Ç.hange. Mr. Dickinson stated some revenue has gone up. They are looking at a yearly-~ ~tlí the sc~,wIJ I4.-t- \JCA.I . . ~¡f" a... ." ;¡~ c>o" $ \.H distrIct. He noted they have a tax range per household of$39 to $45, are gettmg c o~er to 45. Councilmember Trude noted they would need to update the Business Plan with the new amounts. Discussion ensued on the split, and why costs have moved more to the City side. wnu\cw ID-'l-03 Councilmember Jacobson asked is anything was keeping the campaign committee ITom raising money. Mr. Saterbak stated they need to re-spark interest. A member of the audience asked if the Council would consider donated materials in lieu of cash. He asked if they would consider it as capital cash. Councilmember Jacobson indicated any donation of cash or work-in-kind would be counted. Mr. Erar advised it should be recognized as capital campaign and should also reduce the budget. Mr. Dickinson explained how it would be viewed. Mr. Kellogg stated that to answer Councilmember Jacobson's question, the Business Plan has been approved, but the pro forma, in layman's terms, needs to be updated. Dickinson indicated he has that available. APPROVE WATERPARK EXPANSION SCENARIOS City Administrator Erar explained that the studies on the waterpark are underway. There will be a special City Council meeting on October 8, 2003, the same night as the stakeholders meeting. He advised a decision needs to be made that night; if it cash flows, the Council can make a decision; ifit does not, the decision is made for you. Councilmember Jacobson asked what the extra cost is for the slide. Mr. Erar stated different options have been presented; $680,000 for three slides on the outside of the structure, $1,110,900 for three slides on the inside of the building with the building expanded. Councilmember Knight noted there would be extra heating cost with the slides on the outside. Mr. Erar agreed, indicating that is why they are proposing they be on the inside. Councilmember Jacobson asked if the slides make money, why is the YMCA sharing the profit with the City. Mr. Erar indicated there is still a risk, and they want to share that risk. Motion by Councilmember Orttel, seconded by Councilmember Trude to approve a special City Council meeting on October 8, 2003. Motion carried unanimously. MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 16 City Administrator Erar advised the lease agreement is the secondary agreement The Memorandum of Understanding is the main agreement between the YMCA and the City of Andover. He indicated this is the document that talks about the lease agreement principles. It lays out the entire agreement between the YMCA and the City, and is the guiding document for how the lease will be negotiated. He noted the lease cannot be negotiated until fundraising is done. Councilmember Jacobson asked when the lease will be signed. Mr. Erar indicated probably in January. Councilmember Jacobson noted they would be ordering steel before that. Mr. Erar stated there is a good faith element here; the MOD talks about both parties raising funds. Councilmember Jacobson expressed concern that they will not have a legal document before ordering materials. Mr. Erar stated they are no more at risk ordering steel than they were when they ordered construction design development. He noted the City Council was well briefed in advance on the possible risks. Mayor Gamache stated there is no reason they cannot try another fundraising campaign if the first one is not completely successful. Councilmember Jacobson asked if there is anything to say the YMCA will share liquidating damages if the project gets called off. Mayor Gamache did not think the YMCA would walk away. Councilmember Knight stated the YMCA has big donors of their own; he asked if the City would benefit from those donations. Mr. Erar indicated he did not know. He will be talking to Harold Mezzille about getting personally involved with raising dollars. He noted if the YMCA owns half the building there would be a good reason for them to share in the risk, but telling a tenant they have to share in the risk and the City wants their fund raising money also seems out of line to him. Councilmember Trude noted the City was told the YMCA would help with fundraising. Mr. Saterbak stated the question is if the YMCA received a $1 million donation it would come to the campaign or go to the YMCA debt. Mr. Erar stated the MOD covers that. Mayor Gamache stated he does not see the YMCA running a separate fundraising campaign over and above what the City is doing. Mr. Saterbak stated Mr. Mezzille is very involved in getting this branch in place, and has said he will go on any calls we request. FACILITY DESIGN ISSUES Councilmember Trude stated at the Stakeholder meeting they talked about several things. She advised there will be a food service vendor, and they discussed what type offood should be served. She indicated it will probably be a balanced menu of some sort. They also reviewed the first floor plan at the stakeholder meeting. She indicated there was a question of the best location for office space for the City. The Council proceeded to discuss the most 10gica1location for supervision. Mr. Erar stated the YMCA and City had agreed they would share the 1100 square feet of office space for several reasons, including communication and coordination. He stated the security issues have been addressed. He indicated there is also the opportunity for shared support with the YMCA. They Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 17 continued to discuss the pros and cons of access points and sharing of services. Councilmember Trude noted they were also made aware there is no provisions for gates to block off the hallway. Councilmember Jacobson noted a roll-up gate would not be a problem to install. 2004 BUDGET REDUCTION AFFECTED SERVICES Councilmember Jacobson stated the information provided is not exactly what he was looking for. He stated the last time they had reductions the Parks Department took out port-a-potties and the Council heard about it a lot. He would like to see what is being reduced. Mr. Erar indicated the 2003 reductions were carried over to 2004. He understood the Council wanted to know what affects to service there would be from the reductions, and the sununary sheet talks about the affect on services. To get the detail of each reduction would mean the Council wants line items, and they would need to meet with Mr. Dickinson on that. Councilmember Jacobson stated he would like to see what the additional $200,000 in cuts include. He can come in and talk to Mr. Dickinson if that would be easier. Councilmember Orttel stated he would also like to know the dollar amounts associated with each item. Councilmember Jacobson added with the Civic Center coming on the budget next year he would like to know where that is in the budget. Mr. Dickinson stated they could provide the Council with a spreadsheet that would answer most of their questions. Councilmember Orttel asked when they are scheduled to deal with the final budget. Mr. Dickinson stated when they publish the Truth-in-Taxation hearing notice at the end of November. Councilmember Orttel stated they would need to know what they are willing to give up to replace something they want to keep. It has to be a shift; they cannot just say they do not want a particular reduction. PROPOSED 2004 -08 CIP Mr. Dickinson handed out the draft CIP. He asked that the Council review it Councilmember Orttel asked if it changed ITom last year, how did it change. Mr. Dickinson stated they review it each year and if there is not money to do a project they look at moving it out It is an evolving document. He stated there are items there every year, like seal coating, but the actual extent of the projects is based on available resources. He noted they are going to a pro forma ten years out to determine in&astructure needs and allow us to keep up with growth. He indicated the Council would see they have signjficant State Aid expenditures coming up, such as Round Lake Boulevard, that have already been committed. Councilmember Jacobson asked about the Public Works Building purchase ITom the EDA for $2.1 million. Mr. Dickinson stated they have changed the law that allows the City to change bonding, and Special Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes - September 23, 2003 Page 18 by doing this the City will save $20,000 to $30,000 annually in lease payments. Mr. Erar stated all of these are proposed projects; the Council will have the opportunity to go through the projects in detail. ADJOURNMENT Motion by Councilmember Knight, Seconded by Councilmember Jacobson to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting adjourned at 11 :30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Karen Whaley, Recording Secretary