HomeMy WebLinkAboutWK October 8, 2003
CITY o F NYluuiuL
NDOVE lo-;l.l-o :;
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W. . ANDOVER. MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP - OCTOBER 8, 2003
MINUTES
The Special Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache,
October 8, 2003, 6:36 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover,
MinnesotL
Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude
Councilmember absent: None
Also present: City Finance Director, Jim Dickinson
Park and Recreation Commissioner, Dan Maslowski
Kurt Saterbak
Tony Howard
YMCA Representative, Anita Lancello
YMCA CEO Harold Mezile
YMCA Representative, Tom LaSalle
Craig Kronholm, RJM
Bob Josart, RJM Analyst
Ted Rozeboom, Architect
Others
AGENDA APPROVAL
Mayor Gamache explained that because some of the people present needed to leave early, he
suggested they move item five up to item four and move item four down.
Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Knight, to approve the Agenda as amended above. Motion
carried unanimously.
PROJECT PRESENTATION AND DESIGN UPDATE
Mr. Ted Rozeboom, the Community Center Architect explained they cut the overage in the budget
to halfbut they are still over budget. He explained they hoped to get this phase of the project done in
mid November. The remaining design issues are in the water park.
WATER PARK EXPANSION ANALYSIS
Mr. Dickinson explained they are working on an analysis for a water park expansion. The analysis is
to look at adding additional water slides. The report is indicating the analysis of the operating cost of
--.
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 2
the facility. He explained that it is hard to get an analysis for the expenses and users of the water
park so they are not looking for approval by the Council tonight. They would like three more weeks
to finish the analysis and then bring it back for approval.
Mr. Dickinson explained the details of the analysis to the Stakeholders and City Council.
Councilmember Orttel asked how many different Community Center slides they were comparing this
to and how many slides do other communities have. Mr. Dickinson stated they are comparing
outdoor slides when it gets to an indoor facility operating year round they did not think that was fair
to compare to outdoor slides.
Mayor Gamache asked if Shoreview has two indoor slides. Mr. Dickinson stated he thought they do
and Shoreview did recently expand.
Mr. Dickinson stated that by looking at operational costs, it does not make sense to have three slides;
it makes more sense to have two slides and to expand in the future by twos.
Councilmember Trude asked how many staff they would need to have per slide. Mr. Dickinson
stated the YMCA would have that information from the Red Cross.
Councilmember Trude asked why their operating costs are more than other communities. Mr.
Dickinson stated the analysis was dependent on the slides and the personnel. He stated the operating
costs are on the conservative side but at the high end.
Mr. Tom LaSalle, YMCA, stated this assumption was having two life guards on each slide along
with lifeguards on deck. He believed the costs were on the high side.
Discussion ensued regarding the cost of the proposed water park in Andover compared to other
cities' water parks.
Councilmember Orttel asked what they would run in the next three weeks. Mr. Dickinson stated
they would be running the numbers to figure out the revenue because the YMCA does not want to
reduce their revenue.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if the original plan had one slide. The YMCA stated it did.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the proposal shows three slides but they were originally asked to
increase to one more slide. Mr. LaSalle stated they will be going to a different slide type.
Councilmember Jacobson asked how many slides they are asked to look at expanding to. Mr.
LaSalle stated they need to look at five or six in order to be expandable. He stated they are looking
at changing from a YMCA type space that had one slide to a large space with a play area and larger
pool area with the ability to expand to five or six.
.-
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 3
Mr. Dickinson explained they are dealing with a totally different design of pool. Mr. LaSalle stated
the fIrst phase in the model would be three slides. The original slide design is out and they are
looking at replacing the slide design with three slides but they would like to recheck this to see if it
would be wiser to put the slides in pairs.
Mr. LaSalle stated they would need two life guards per slide and they found it would make sense to
install four slides initially and then expand to six eventually. Mr. Dickinson stated this would
depend on if it was cost effective and if the revenues would work. If the revenues would not work
out, they would go back to the three.
Councilmember Knight asked if they would share the cost of the construction of the water park. Mr.
LaSalle stated they would share the implemental cost of the water park and split the revenue or loss.
It was noted that Shoreview charges $8.00 per person for use of the pool and Maple Grove is also
$8.00.
Councilmember Jacobson stated in the projections, in the summer they will be working against
Bunker Park so he thought the revenue would be lower because people would want to be outside.
Mr. LaSalle stated they have checked on this factor and have found that indoor parks are used as
much if not more than outdoor parks in the summer time.
Councilmember Knight asked if they go to a totally different design or concept, would this change
the design of the center. Mr. LaSalle stated it would remain the same shape only be expanded further
to the south.
Councilmember Knight asked if the cost would go up. Mr. LaSalle stated this added to the annual
debt service of the facility.
~CíS \O~~,
Mr. Dan aslg"'Ekt; Andover Park and Recreation Commission, asked what the capacity of the
center would be. Mr. LaSalle stated they do not know the exact number. l ct.l\\.tiltltd I D-;U -v:')
Mr. Dickinson did not think the data supplied at the meeting was adequate to make a decision so they
would like three additional weeks.
Councilmember Jacobson asked what this will do to the deadline for the architects. Mr. Rozeboom
stated it would be ideal to have the information and this was discussed and they decided they should
move forward with the basic waterpark design and they know what the basic expanded waterpark
will be. They have moved forward in the schematics without this information but they would like to
get the information soon.
Mr. Kronholm understood that they will need the infonnation by the fIrst of December on the
structure. Mr. Rozeboom thought US Aquatics would need four weeks to do what they need to do
and they will try to get done with the design by the middle of November.
.-,
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 4
Mayor Gamache stated regarding the arena construction date, would a delay happen throughout. Mr.
Rozeboom stated there is no extension to the October 4, 2004 deadline so it would not be affected
because they are not asking for a time extension.
Mr. Rozeboom understood there will be some issues regarding the facility but they will work through
them.
Councilmember Jacobson stated he was assuming the YMCA's board is ok with the design but do
they want to go and spend additional funds for slides. Mr. Mezile, YMCA, thought that was an
accurate statement. They know the base plan is a good plan and the only issue is will the additional
slides bring in revenue.
Councilmember Trude stated her concern is if they should look at using more capital revenue and if
the additional slides will bring in additional revenue. She wondered if they will know any more in
three weeks than they already know today. Mr. Dickinson stated if the numbers come back not
favorable they will still be on schedule because they will be using the base plan until a
recornmendation and approval is made.
Mr. LaSalle stated one of the things they can gain by getting three additional weeks is they can fmd
out if this would be worthwhile and they will not be losing anything. The YMCA has asked that the
building be constructed in such a way that the aquatics center can be expanded in five or more years.
Councilmember Jacobson stated if in three weeks, they get the numbers and the Council agrees to go
forward with the expansion, how soon would the directors of the YMCA be able to decide on what
they want to do. Mr. Mezile stated they could move very quickly on making a decision.
Mr. Mezile stated the YMCA Board is going to have some meetings with the architects so they can
get the same information the stakeholders and City Council are getting.
Councilmember Trude asked if Mr. Saterbak or Mr. Howard wanted to comment on the fundraising.
Mr. Howard stated they are using what they have been given.
PROJECT BUDGET UPDATE
Mr. Rozeboom stated there are some plan changes that have been made. He explained the plan
change in the aquatics center is where the concessions are going to be. If they go to a base
aquatics center, they will not have a concession area, it will be open with seating. If the water
park expands, they will close the open area off and will be accessible to the water park only for
concessions. There will be a window looking into the pool either way ITom the area.
Mr. Rozeboom stated in the east area, there was a void in the building next to the stairs; they
shifted it up to save some money. None of the plan moves cut program square footage. They
took two square feet out of Main Street. On the west side of the hockey arena, they had four
·-0
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 5
locker rooms, zamboni room and mechanical room and under the fixed seating they had unusable
space. They were able to shift the four team rooms to the unusable space and they shifted the
zamboni and mechanical room to the north side of the building. They have not lost any space or
team rooms in the hockey arena.
Mr. Rozeboom showed the drawing of the hockey arena and explained where everything was
going to be placed. They have six team rooms along with a larger storage room.
Mr. Howard asked how large the team rooms were going to be. Mr. Kronholm thought they were
32 by 26 .
Mr. Howard asked what type of storage would be utilized in the storage room. Mr. Rozeboom
stated this would not be a good place for board storage. Mr. Kronholm stated they will be having
a meeting with all the users to layout and decide the storage for all the different areas.
Councilmember Knight asked what happens during the high school off season hockey time. Mr.
Maslowski stated normally this is used for practice and storage for equipment It was noted the
rooms would be utilized year round for boosters and other needs.
Mr. Maslowski asked if the skate rental storage was still in the lower portion of the arena. Mr.
Rozeboom stated he thought it would be in the same space as before.
Mr. Maslowski did not think there was enough storage on the arena side of the plan. Mr.
Rozeboom stated they actually have more storage in the new plan compared to before. Mr.
Kronholm stated there is still room between the arena and the room for general storage.
Councilmember Knight asked if tþere was still a room for figure skating.· Mr. Rozeboom stated
there is a skate changing area and he did not see anything ill either plans for this. He noted they
would follow up on the figure skating room and also on the storage.
Mr. Rozeboom explained the YMCA had a family lounge and the family lounge is now a
mechanical room and the lobby remains the same. It helped reduce the square footage of the
building.
Mr. Howard wondered about the restrooms and if there were enough. Mr. Rozeboom stated they
did a plumbing fIxture analysis based on code and they are within the code. They have bathroom
facilities in all of the locker rooms and most of the team rooms. He thought the public restrooms
and all the other restrooms were adequate.
Mr. Rozeboom stated they will research other facilities to see if this is adequate.
Mr. Rozeboom explained on the second level the basic arrangement is the same. There is a glass
wall between the fitness area and the field house. The studios are now open and the spinning
area is now enclosed because of the noise. There are no longer windows between the studio and
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 6
the strength training area and the ice arena and the assessment offices have been moved. The
numbers of openings have been reduced by one. There are still some windows overlooking the
aquatics center.
Councilmember Jacobson asked Mr. Rozeboom to discuss the office space allocated. Mr.
Rozeboom showed on the map where the office area will be and how it will be laid out.
Councilmember Trude asked how the office space was allocated. Mr. LaSalle stated at this
point, it is fifty-fifty.
Ms. Lancello stated they would need three office spaces and Mr. Erar told her the City would
need one space. Mr. Kronholm stated the sheriff would have an office in one space also.
Mr. Rozeboom thought they had the YMCA looking open and inviting but also secure. He
explained how people would access the YMCA.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if there was still going to be a curtain or fence to separate the
areas when there is not any activity going on. Mr. Rozeboom stated he did not think they could
shut off the main street because of access points. They could close the separate rooms by doors.
Councilmember Knight asked if they could get an office for the sheriff and a marked parking
spot on the west side of the building because it would serve a great purpose because this side
would be occupied by kids.
Councilmember Orttel stated once the facility opens, they will fmd things they previously
overlooked and they will need to be adaptable. He stated they cannot plan for everything.
Mr. Rozeboom stated the kids' gym now has a playscape area on both floors.
Councilmember Jacobson noted they are lowering the roof on both facilities. Mr. Rozeboom
stated they are lowering the field house roof twenty-five feet. The ice arena is at the lowest
point, twenty-three feet.
Mr. Rozeboom made a presentation to the City Council and Stakeholders regarding the project
budget update.
a. Value Engineering Recommendations
Mr. Rozeboom explained the schematic is six percent over and the manageable
schematic is three percent over. They feel comfortable to proceed and they will be
within budget. They will not reduce the building anymore.
Mr. Rozeboom reviewed the recommendations by the City and YMCA.
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 7
S-1 Reduce parking areas to minimum "demonstrated need" requirement or
540 stalls.
This was agreed on by the City Council.
S-2 Reduce parking stall width of new stalls ITom 10' to 9' and decrease
paving accordinglv.
The Mayor stated nine feet for parking stalls was fme with him.
Councilmembers' Trude and Jacobson preferred ten feet for the parking
stalls.
It was decided further review was needed.
S-3 Reduce site concrete paving by deleting select sidewalk areas.
The City Council agreed on this item.
S-4 Reduce site concrete bv reducing size of southwest outdoor plaza.
This was agreed upon by the City Council.
GC-l Ice arena revisions
The City Council agreed this item was fine.
GC-2 Building height/volume reduction
The City Council agreed this item was fme.
Mr. Tom Berard, Andover High School Girls Hockey Coach, stated he felt
once the ice arena was expanded to two sheets, they will not have enough
team rooms for both sheets. Mr. Rozeboom stated a second ice sheet will
come with some additional support areas and he felt there will be more
team rooms added between the two ice arenas.
Mr. Maslowski noted the zamboni room will not work where it is located
once the second ice sheet is installed. Removing the circulation space will
be a problem in the future.
Mr. Berard stated on the permanent bleachers, there are areas that the pitch
is not enough and they will miss some of the rink and they do not want
people to complain. Mr. Rozeboom stated the pitch is significant and by
raising the base level of the bleachers they will improve the visibility. He
'-0
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 8
stated they have two risers for every level of seating.
Councilmember Knight asked if they were looking at chair seating. Mr.
Rozeboom stated he thought it would be bench seating.
GC-3 Reduce width of circulation at ice arena bv 3'
The City Council agreed this was good.
Mr. Howard asked how large the hallway would be. Mr. Rozeboom
thought it would be eight feet.
GC-4 Interior glazing changes-revise select areas from aluminum framing to
hollow metal. Reduce quantity in select areas.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if it was reasonable to go from aluminum
to all metal. Mr. Kronholm stated in selected areas where they would not
have humidity they could do this.
The Council agreed this looked good.
GC-5 Delete Kalwall at north field house face. Provide masonrY wall UP to
Fieldhouse roof.
Mr. Rozeboom stated this was a load bearing wall and could be taken out
for expansion.
The City Council agreed this looked fine.
GC-6 Not being used
GC-7 Eliminate "l]" ShaDed Courtyard at Main YMCA Stair to reduce areas of
exterior wall.
The City Council agreed this looked fine.
GC-8 Delete Skvlight over Second Floor Fitness areas between ice arena and
Fieldhouse.
The City Council agreed this looked fine.
-
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 9
GC-9 Clarify Ouantitv of Gvosum Board Ceilings and Acoustical Ceiling Tile.
No changes needed to be made to this.
The City Council agreed this looked fine.
GC-1O Increase Height of Comer Mass at Kid's Gvm to provide areas for tall plav
structure.
Mr. LaSalle stated they are trying to decide if they can afford this.
The City Council agreed this looked fine.
GC-ll Reduce width of Main Street bv two feet.
The City Council agreed this looked [me.
GC-12 Reduce Width of administration corridor bv two feet
The City Council agreed this looked [me.
GC-13 Change floor finish in all public areas
The City Council agreed this looked [me.
GC-14 Provide EpOxv Paint over CMU wall in lieu of ceramic tile at aU locker
rooms. showers and toilets
Mr. Rozeboom stated this was not accepted by YMCA.
Councilmember Orttel thought they were better off with ceramic.
City Council preferred GC-14A.
GC-14A Provide four foot high ceramic tile wainscot in lieu of full height ceramic
tile at all locker rooms. showers and toilets.
This was accepted by the YMCA and City Council.
GC-15 Provide non-slip floor sealer in lieu of floor tile at areas in wet areas.
The City Council felt this should be discussed further.
GC-16 Reduce area of west lobbv
.-~.-, ~
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 10
The City Council agreed this looked fine.
b. County Transportation Access Issues
Mr. Kronholm stated discussions are continuing with the County regarding access
to the Community Center. He stated the County will not budge on the issue of a
right in/right out at Bluebird Street.
Councilmember Trude stated she did not understand this because Bluebird Street
is already being accessed by people using the elementary school and jfthere was a
stop light there, it would not be a problem.
Mr. Kronholm showed a map with the other access points to the Community
Center and discussed the Tower Drive entrance. He stated this would be the key
access point to the Community Center. Crosstown would need to be expanded to
accommodate two left turn lanes and there will not be a stop light.
Councilmember Trude thought this will be dangerous with the curve around
Nightingale and not any adequate site lines.
Mr. Kronholm stated discussion has been ongoing with the County regarding
these items.
Mr. Darren Lazan stated he thought Hanson sounded like a logical entrance more
than the Crosstown entrance. He thought that the county wanting Hanson
Boulevard closed at this intersection was not wise because there is already a lot of
traffic going into and out of the elementary school and there will be traffic on
Bluebird and Hanson once Clocktower Commons is constructed and they need
more of a controlled intersection.
Mr. Lazan stated his clients at Clocktower would be supportive of a controlled
intersection on Hanson.
Councilmember Trude asked if they could push something to be done on Bluebird
and Hanson if they contributed something. Mr. Dickinson thought the County
was going to push the Tower Drive entrance because the ice arena is on that side
and most traffic would be on that side.
Mr. Lazan stated the County did allow some changes for Clocktower but not
everything.
Mr. Lazan stated he will be bringing a proposal forward on what they would like
to see at the intersection from the County.
_'_L
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 11
Councilmember Orttel asked staff to schedule a meeting with the County within
the next two weeks to discuss this issue.
c. Ball field Lighting Budget
Mr. Kronholm explained they originally allocated $75,000 to relocate the ball
fields because they did not think they would fit in with the Community Center. It
was found out that the ball fields could stay where they are so what they have
done is reallocated $120,000 to relocate the light poles to the existing ball fields.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if they are doing, they are losing one field. Mr.
Kronholm stated they are actually losing three fields on this site and keeping one
field. He stated they will be lighting Sunshine Park to extend the playfield there.
Mr. Tom Berard stated they will still be losing game time because of the fields
they will lose but they will make it work.
Mr. Dickinson stated they did not feel it was feasible to relocate the existing lights
to those fields because they could be used to light hockey rinks and other ball
fields in the City.
Mr. Dickinson asked Mr. Berard if the High School has been more cooperative in
allowing them to use their fields when the school was not using them. Mr. Berard
stated they have discussed this. They would be allowed to use those fields in the
summer months.
Councilmember Jacobson concluded they were looking at estimate #1 and they
already have $120,000 in the budget. Mr. Dickinson stated this was true.
Councilmember Knight explained he was suggesting lighting the high school
fields. Mr. Berard stated they could not use these fields until June 1 st when the
joint powers agreement goes into effect.
Mr. Dickinson stated they could contact the school district to see what the
possibilities of getting on the field earlier would be.
Councilmember Trude stated she thought they needed to talk to the school to see
what could be done to get them on the fields earlier than June 1 st.
Mr. Berard asked how much money they saved by not relocating the playground.
Councilmember Trude stated it would have been costly to move the playground
and they would not have been able to reconstruct the playground to the extent it is
now.
·-0
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 12
Mr. Dickinson stated the direction he is looking at is to light the four fields at
Sunshine Park and they could look further into this and come back to the City
Council with recommendations.
Councilmember Trude stated another issue is the parking lot at Sunshine Park
should be lit because right now it is pitch black and difficult to see kids in the
parking lot.
d. Mechanical System Budget
Mr. Rozeboom stated they are still high regarding the mechanical - half a million
higher than they wanted to be project wide. He stated they have interior air handling
and mechanical rooms for the pool, etc. They have taken some of the equipment and
placed it on the roof instead of inside the building. They have maintained the indoor
mechanical rooms they have to. The rest of the mechanicals will be on the roof, close
to the center of the building to reduce the amount of duct work and keep them
invisible from the road.
Councilmember Knight asked what the sound system would be. Mr. Rozeboom stated they have not
planned this yet.
Mr. Rozeboom stated the scoreboards would be donated for both the ice arena and the field house.
Councilmember Jacobson asked what consisted of furniture. Mr. Rozeboom stated it would be
anything that is not attached to the building and this would need to be discussed for reduction.
Mr. Rozeboom stated they have not taken anything out of the contingency yet. Mr. Kronholm stated
the contingency on the property is $756,000.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if the market is going up or down for bidding on this project. Mr.
Kronholm stated the industry is increasing especially in wood and metal areas. He stated wood
would not affect them too much but the metal will. He stated all the other areas have remained
somewhat stable.
Councilmember Orttel stated the County in the past has made contributions for some of these things.
He also wondered if they could tie into the large generator at the public works building to save
money by not investing in a large generator for the Community Center. Mr. Kronholm stated they
are going to use battery operated generators for the lights and there would not be any generator for
the community center.
Mr. Maslowski asked if staff looked at revenue loss if they lost power for a large number of hours.
Mr. Kronholm stated they did look at this.
·-0
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 13
Mr. Maslowski asked if the City looked at electrical control for great rebate deals. Mr. Dickinson
stated they did discuss this.
Councilmember Trude asked if the space with the YMCA was clearly defined or if there are still grey
areas. Mr. Dickinson stated they have discussed this in the past week and he did not think there were
any significant items they could not agree on.
Mr. LaSalle stated the YMCA has decreased their space and the City has increased their space so the
ratios will more than likely change.
PROJECT SCHEDULE
Mr. Rozeboom showed the project schedule and explained where they are in the plan. He stated they
would like approval for the design plan.
Mr. Maslowski asked if the YMCA decided not to have the concession area, could they move that
area over for a seating area. Mr. Rozeboom stated they would like to have the main street area a very
active area with places to sit and view the different areas.
Council consensus was they agreed with the changes to the Community Center design.
NEXT MEETING DATE
Mr. Dickinson stated they will be canceling the meeting tomorrow aftemoQn becausè they need
to work on some of the issues brought up.
Mr. Dickinson stated they were suggesting October 30th at 6:00 for the next meeting to discuss the
new information regarding the waterpark. Councilmember Jacobson stated he could not make that
meeting.
Mr. LaSalle and Mr. Rozeboom suggested November 5th at 6:30 p.m. The City Council agreed.
OTHER ISSUES
There were no other issues.
Motion by Orttel, Seconded by Jacobson, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting
adjourned at 9:25 p.m.
Regular Andover City Council Meeting
Minutes - October 8, 2003
Page 14
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Osbeck, Recording Secretary