HomeMy WebLinkAboutWK January 15, 2003
CITY OF ANDOVER
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD NW.. ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923. WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
Special City Council Workshop
Wednesday, January 15,2003
1. Call to Order -7:00 p.m.
2. Public versus Private Infrastructure Development
3. Consider Storm Water Utility
4. Fire Station #3 Land Exchange and Project Update
5. Other Business
6. Adjournrnent
CITY of ANDOVER
SPECIAL ANDOVER CITYCOUNClL WORKSHOP-JANUARY IS, 2003
MINUTES
The Special Workshop of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache,
January 15, 2003, 7:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover,
MinnesotL
Councilmembers present: Don Jacobson, Mike Knight, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude
Councilmember absent: None
Also present: Fire Chief, Dan Winkel
Interim City Engineer, Bill Ottensmann
City Engineer, Dave Berkowitz
Building Official, Dave Almgren
Public Works Superintendent, Frank Stone
Water Supervisor, Brian Kraabel
City Finance Director, Jim Dickinson
City Administrator, John Erar
Assistant City Engineer, Todd Haas
Others
AGENDA APPROVAL
Add Item Sa, (Round Lake Boulevard Reconstruction).
Motion by Trude, Seconded by Knight, to approve the Agenda as amended. Motion carried
unanimously.
PUBLIC VERSUS PRIVATE INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT
City Engineer Berkowitz explained one of the Council's 2002 goals is to review the present City of
Andover policy of requiring all public facility improvements in new urban developments be
contracted for and installed under City contract. Some Council members have had requests from
developers to be allowed to design, contract for, and install public facilities including utilities and
streets. Staff has been requested to provide a discussion of the pros and cons of changing the present
policy.
Mr. Berkowitz explained that Staff recommends no change in the present policy. Staff feels the
present policy is the best way to insure quality construction. If Council wishes to change the policy,
staff feels that the City should retain the Engineer even if the developer gets the construction
contract. Outside oftotal City control, preparation of plans and specifications by a qualified engineer
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Minutes - January 15, 2003
Page 2
retained by the City and familiar with city policies and specifications is the second most important
way to insure quality facilities.
City payment to developer-hired contractors through an escrow arrangement will also help the City
retain control over contractors' work. If Council decides to change City policy, staff feels the change
should not take place until 2004, as a number of changes in procedures and securities will be
necessary.
CounciImember Jacobson asked if the engineers were involved in the projects every day. Mr.
Berkowitz stated they are on the job every day to oversee and make sure everything is on track.
Councilmember Trude asked what the construction staking consists of. Mr. Berkowitz stated it
consists of staking sanitary sewer lines, electrical and gas lines.
CounciImember Trude asked what the difference is in City hired engineers versus private engineers.
Mr. Berkowitz stated City hired engineers are more knowledgeable about sewer lines and other city
requirements such as rights-of-ways.
Councilmember Orttel asked if the fust time the City would 100k at the project, would be when it
was ready to go into the ground and then the City would overlook it, if private. Mr. Erar stated even
if it was private, it would still need to go through the City for approval and inspection. Mr.
Berkowitz stated at this time, the developer works with the City engineers who know the
requirements and if it went private, they would need to develop a standard.
Councilmember Knight asked if they usually use one fIrm for consultants. Mr. Berkowitz stated at
this time they use three consultants because of the comfort level. Mr. Haas stated using more than
one firm keeps them competitive. Mr. Erar stated Mr. Berkowitz has made sure the firms have been
competitive and has received bids on each project.
Mr. Erar stated a lot of cities only use one contractor until they get too expensive and then they look
around where Andover looks continuously for the best price which saves the taxpayers money.
Council member Trude asked if inspection is an hourly fee charged back to the project. Mr,
Berkowitz stated that is true. With the contractor working for the City they are able to spend a little
less time on the project because the comfort level is higher.
Councilmember Knight asked ifthere is a price on the bonding. Mr. Dickinson stated it is dependent
on the assessment being paid on time. Council member Orttel stated it did not have anyihing to do
with the administrative cost because it is charged back.
Council member Trude asked if the water treatment plant went against their bonding limit. Mr.
Dickinson stated it did not. Councilmember Trude asked ifthere was any concern with City related
projects. Mr. Dickinson stated at this time there was not a lot of concern with the bonding limit.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if a developer could get a better interest rate on a private operation
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Minutes - January 15, 2003
Page 3
than the City and do they have to pay for the entire project when it is completed. Mr. Mike Quigley
stated they pay for the project as it is developed. He stated they get very favorable interest rates. Mr.
Dickinson stated it depends on the financial backing of the developer.
Councilmember Jacobson stated considering the timelines the City has, what advantage does having
a shorter time span have on getting the job done. Mr. Byron Westlund stated the timeframe would be
shorter for the City. Mr. Erar stated the requirement the City has imposed is an artificial deadline to
get the preliminary plats done. After approval the City loses any ability over controlling the
infi-astructure going into the ground.
Mr. Berkowitz stated the difference between now and if they were to go to private would be the
engineer's time spent on the project. Councilmember Knight asked if a full time inspection means
an engineer is on the site eight hours a day. Mr. Haas stated that is true as long as they are working.
Councilmember Jacobson asked what the warranty is for a private project. Mr. Quigley stated it is
usually one year. Mr. Westlund stated there is usually a holdback of money in case something
happens that would cover the cost of repairs.
Councilmember Orttel asked if the additional inspection time and cost would be because the City
would not know the engineering fInns and construction companies. Mr. Berkowitz stated this is
true.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if they were to go private, would the developer expect five or ten
percent savings on cost. Mr. Westlund stated some of this is in construction because some of the
contractors can do more than one area in a project so their costs could go down as much as ten
percent. Mr. Quigley stated there is an efficiency quotient in this also. Mr. Westlund stated many of
the fees they have now will go away. Mr. Haas stated there are some costs that would be harder to
calculate, such as trunk costs.
Mr. Erar stated there is an intangible where if the developer hires their own contractors, they may
hire a contractor that does not have the same requirements that the city has. Councilmember Trude
asked if the requirements could be included in an Ordinance for this. Mr. Quigley asked if there are
standards right now for contractors to meet before they can bid. Mr. Dickinson stated they have to
meet certain insurance requirements and bonding. Mr. Ottensmann stated under certain
circumstances the contractor can be disqualified from bidding for doing a bad job previously.
Mr. Berkowitz stated there is less control oyer engineering firms hired by deye]opers because the
City is not notified quickly for inspection and the City is not there to make sure the project is going
in properly.
Council member Knight stated the standards are subjective standards in particular situations and they
do not have a set of quality standards \\TÎtten anywhere. Mr. Berkowitz stated if they go to private,
they would have to make sure the standards are met. Mr. Haas stated they do have quality standards
but not spccifically written for each project.
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Minutes - January 15, 2003
Page 4
CounciImember Knight asked for other cities, which is the largest percentage, public or private. Mr.
Dickinson stated all cities are doing a portion of their projects as public when it comes to
redevelopment. Mr. Birkowitz stated he called Forest Lake and they will be doing a hybrid because
the city does not want to bond for projects and Lino Lakes does it both ways depending on the
project. Mr. Haas stated he has called Coon Rapids and the majority is public.
Mr. Quigley stated Lino Lakes uses TKDA for engineers and they have a set of standards which is
not unique. He stated every city he has worked in has standards that they have to adhere to.
Mr. Erar stated staffhas a lot of convictions for having control because some of the infi-astructure in
a project will be owned and maintained by the city. There is more control when the city oversees the
project &om beginning to end. He stated this idea is not entirely rational but it is a peace of mind.
Councilmember Jacobson stated even if a project is private, the City will still have engineers on the
job for inspection and it may be scrutinized more because it is more risky.
Discussion ensued regarding private versus public and the quality of work performed.
Mr. Erar stated the majority of cities allow private contractors to come in and install components in
new developments.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if other cities require longer warranties for private development.
Mr. Quigley stated he believed in some cases they did. Mr. Haas stated in Andover they require a
longer warranty with sewer.
Councilmember Jacobson stated he would like to get a legal opinion regarding this. Mr. Dickinson
stated they are in the process of getting a legal opinion from the City Attorney.
Mr. Quigley stated a lot of the discussion has been in regard to quality and he disagrees with this
because there is nothing to substantiate it. Mr. Erar stated the developers at the meeting are the type
of developers the City would want for their projects because they care about the quality.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the more money that is involved the more the developer will want
the project done correctly.
Mr. Erar stated if the City would go to private development, it will be more labor intensive for staff.
Mr. Kraabel showed a video of maintenance problems with a sewer pipe that ",ill need to be repaired
and is the City's responsibility to fix because it is out of warranty.
Mayor Gamache asked if it would help if they would set detailed standards for private development.
1'1r, Berkowitz stated that if they did transition to private development they would need to set
detailed standards which could be part of the bidding process.
Council member Jacobson asked when it would go into effect if they would go to private
-~-_.
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Minutes - January 15, 2003
Page 5
development. Mr. Berkowitz stated they would start it with projects in 2004. Mr. Erar stated they
would need time to pIan for the transition and to adopt standards.
Mr. Stone stated eighty percent of the time with their inspections they do not have very many repairs
that need to be done. Everything has been improved over the years. He is in support of keeping
things the way they are right now. Mr. Kraabel stated from a maintenance standpoint, they do not
want to come back in five or ten years and fix something that is not budgeted for. They want to
make sure everything is done to their satisfaction from the start.
Mayor Gamache stated with the proper standards and inspections, he does not see a difference in
what they are doing now or if they went with private development.
Mr. Erar stated there are a number of issues staff would need to deal with if they went to private.
Mr. Almgren stated the key issue is they have to have inspections.
Mr. Quigley stated he agreed that inspection is the key but he would not expect any less inspection
with a City project versus a private project.
Mr. Berkowitz stated there are three options the Council can contemplate. The first is private
installed improvements, the second is a combination of public and private and the third option is
public installed improvements. Staff's recommendation is to keep this as it is. If Council would
decide to go private, they would like time to develop the standards and change over.
Council directed staff to bring back legal information regarding this and to discuss this further at
another Council workshop. Councilmember Trude stated she would appreciate it if Mr. Westlund
and Mr. Quigley could submit their recommendations to the Council. Council decided to come back
in late February to meet to make a decision on this.
CONSIDER STORM WATER UTILITY
City Engineer Ottensmann explained that Council authorized staff to develop information that could
lead to the creation of a Storm Water Utility for the funding of management and maintenance ofthe
City's storm water infrastructure. As a first step toward this goal, there is an estimated five-year
Storm Water Utility budget for review and suggested rates to raise the needed revenue to fund the
budget. An alternative method that would keep all residential and farmstead rates the same
regardless of the size of the residential properties.
Council member Jacobson asked how much of exhibit F is already in the budget. Mr.Ottensmann
stated he believed it is $224,000.
There was discussion regarding the proposed future fees.
Councilmember Jacobson stated the rcason they are doing this is to pick up all the arcas that are not
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Minutes - January 15, 2003
Page 6
currently taxed for the storm water utility. Councilmember Orttel asked if instead of billing this
quarterly, could they not have this as a taxing district and put it on the yearly property tax. Mr.
Dickinson stated he believed they could.
Councilmember Orttel stated that if they do not start taking care of their storm water system now, in
the future they are going to be running into major problems. Mr. Erar stated that if they do not start
charging for this now, in the future properties will be taxed a 10t more for the costs of maintaining
this and it will only be charged on taxable property. They want to avoid a future tax levy for this.
He stated they want to be doing this in a most cost effective way.
Mr. Dickinson asked what would happen if the application is filed and agreed to and the City did not
stick by it. Mr. Ottensmann stated they would be subject to a fIDe by the NPDES and a lawsuit by
individuals.
Mr. Erar stated they are not proposing a separate rate for urban, rural and commercial property.
Councilmember Jacobson stated that they want to maintain the storm water system and the money
they are putting into it now is not adequate so the NPDES has increased the cost by $115,000 a year.
He asked what would happen if they would put a tax on the $115,000 and still use the general fund
for the rest of it. Mr. Ottensmann stated there is another major issue that the rate is based on the
runoff. What the proposal does is sets the rate on what they contribute and the cost to contribute.
The major cost is coming from the commercial and not the residential property.
Discussion ensued regarding the storm utility costs.
Councilmember Jacobson asked how the City would bill this to the residents that do not have City
water. Mr. Dickinson stated they would get a list from Connexus and have them include it their bill.
Ms. Gretchen Sable, 3540 153'd asked how often they could change the fees. Mr. Dickinson stated
they could change them at any time of the year based on the City Council recommendation.
Mr. Almgren stated a resident with a two and a half acre lot has the same amount of runoff a person
with less land has so they should pay the same rate.
Council member Orttel stated the easiest way to include this is to figure what their unfunded mandate
is and fit it into the property tax biB every year.
Mr. Erar stated in the previous city he worked in, they had this and sent out quarterly bills and he did
not have many complaints.
Mr. Berkowitz stated \\lth the NPDES, they are dealing wilh pollutants and this is something that is
valid and needs to be looked at.
Councilmember Jacobson agreed with Councilmember Grttel that if they are going to do this, they
Special Andover City Council Workshop
Minutes - January 15, 2003
Page 7
need to do it once a year. Mr. Erar stated in terms of putting this on a property tax statement instead
of a utility fee requires special legislation.
Mayor Gamache asked if they took the mandate of $115,000 for 2003 and only billed this amount
and at the beginning of 2004, they could reduce the property taxes and raise the fees for the entire
portion. Mr. Erar stated this could be possible.
Mr. Ottensmann suggested they have a public hearing regarding this to explain to the residents why
this is happening and see what the reaction is.
City Council requested staff to recalculate the rates and bring the information back to a workshop in
February and in the meantime to include an article in the newspaper and cable regarding this.
Mr. Dickinson stated Connexus charges $2.50 per customer for a setup fee and then a set charge per
item per billing.
Council recessed at 10:00 p.m.
Council reconvened at 10:05 p.m.
FIRE STATION #3 LAND EXCHANGE AND PROJECT UPDATE
Fire Chief Winkel explained as outlined in the 2002-2003 Goals and Objectives, staff has been
compiling information regarding a proposed new fire station in the appropriate location. As part of
the process, staff has identified the need to update the 1989 Fire Station Location and Equipment
Study, authored by Bob Aldrich.
Fire Chief Winkel stated at the next Council meeting, they will be proposing to recommend SEH to
update the study for a cost of$5,500.00 and to verifY and confirm that this is the site for station #3.
If the Council agrees this is the place for a new station, he would like to immediately start looking
for staff for the station. He stated he would recommend this site for the station but wou1d like an
independent study done.
Council member Jacobson asked if the land swap would be at no cost to the City. Fire Chief Winkel
stated that is what they proposed to the property owner.
Mr. Erar asked ifthe City Council had any concerns with shifting the site of the building. He stated
it would make sense for aligning up the crossroads. Mayor Gamache stated he did not have a
problem with this.
Fir Chief Winkel stated they would keep the City Council up to date on the progress of the project.
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Minutes - January 15, 2003
Page 8
ROUND LAKE BOULEVARD RECONSTRUCTION
Assistant City Engineer Haas stated this item is in regard to issues that have been forwarded by the
Anoka County Highway Department regarding the reconstruction of Round Lake Boulevard NW
north of 139th Avenue NW that will require City Council input before the plans can be completed
and submitted back to the City for final review and approval.
Mr. Haas stated a sidewalk is proposed along the west side of Round Lake Boulevard NW south of
South Coon Creek Drive NW. Councilmember Trude stated that now that they are looking at the
1,000 acres, she asked if this is the best place for the intersection. She stated if this develops, it will
develop all at once. Mayor Gamache stated it is the straightest route. Mr. Haas stated on the other
route there are flood plain issues involved.
Council discussed the sidewalk on Round Lake Boulevard NW with staff. Council consensus was to
continue with the sidewalk along Round Lake Boulevard NW.
Council discussed the traffic studies at the intersection of Round Lake Boulevard NW and South
Coon Creek Drive. Council Consensus was to install conduit in the ground.
Council discussed the need of a westbound right turn lane for South Coon Creek Drive NW at Round
Lake Boulevard NW. Council Consensus was to move the road south and recenter the road so they
would not need to buy the house along the roadway.
Motion by Jacobson, Seconded by Knight, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting
adjourned at 10:42 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Osbeck, Recording Secretary