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CITY OF ANDOVER
1685 CROSSTOWN BOULEVARD N.W.. ANDOVER, MINNESOTA 55304. (763) 755-5100
FAX (763) 755-8923 . WWW.CI.ANDOVER.MN.US
Special City Council Workshop
Tuesday, February 25, 2003
Conference Room A
1. Call to Order - 7:00 p.m.
2. Consider Community Center RFP Selection Committee Recommendations - Administration
3. AHYHA Update - Finance
4. Other Business
5. Adjournment
CITY of ANDOVER
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP - FEBRUARY 25, 2003 - MINUTES
A Special City Council Workshop was called to order by Mayor Mike Gamache at 7:03
p.m., Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard
NW, Andover, MirmesotL
Council Members present: Mike Knight, Don Jacobson, Ken Orttel, Julie Trude
Council Members absent: None
Also present: John Erar, City Administrator
Jim Dickinson, Finance Dirèctor
Dave Almgren, Building Official
Dave Berkowitz, City Engineer
Others
AGENDA APPROVAL
MOTION by Jacobson, seconded by Orttel to approve the agenda as presented. Motion
carried unanimously.
CONSIDER COMMUNITY CENTER RFP SELECTION COMMITTEE
RECOMMENDATIONS
Mr. Erar introduced Harold MezilIe, the YMCA President and CEO and Phil Nyvall, the
General Manager of Properties and Facilities of the YMCA.
Mr. Erar reviewed his memo regarding the selection process for architectural and
construction management services, noting that 39 proposals were received and 17 were
selected for interviews. The committee spent approximately 17 hours interviewing fIrms
and almost 10 hours deliberating the merits of the various proposals. He explained that
the committee articulated 21 considerations that supported their recommendations. Mr.
Erar continued his review, noting that the firms felt a realistic budget for this project is
$14,000,000. Many of the firms stressed the importance of air quality systems, energy
management systems and architectural appeal.
Mr. Erar noted that the committee chose to make recommendations on both separate
contracts for architects and construction managers and also for joint proposals. Votes
Special City Council Workshop
February 25, 2003 - Minutes
Page 2
were taken for the joint service proposals with Ryan Companies receiving 6 votes and
Opus receiving 1 vote. The committee then voted on separate service proposals with
RJM Construction and Rozeboom-Miller receiving the majority. Mr. Erar reviewed the
fees associated with the proposals, noting that on a $14,000,000.00 project budget Ryan's
fees would be $1,477,630. RJM and Rozeboom-Miller's fee would be $1,326,983.
Mr. Erar reviewed the conclusions the committee felt were important to the project such
as using durable finishes and quality materials and constructing the center in a cost-
effective, aesthetically pleasing, attractive manner. The committee identified a range
between $12,250,000 to $14,000,000 to build the center. Five members felt that the
project cost would be between $13,000,000 and $14,000,000 and two members felt the
cost would be between $12,150,000 and $12,500,000.
Mr. Erar asked Council to take the following actions: 1) determine whether to use Joint
Consultant Services or Separate Consultant Services; 2) appoint the firm or firms; and 3)
establish a project budget, direct staff to prepare a project cash flow analysis and begin
negotiations with theY MCA regarding a lease commitment agreement.
Councilmember Jacobson asked what quality standards were provided to the fITIlls who
submitted proposals. Mr. Erar stated that most firms presented different types of
materials as indicated in a council adopted resolution. Also, most proposers indicated
that the cost would be between 13 and 14 million dollars to get those standards.
Council discussed the process the firms went through to come up with their proposals.
Mr. Erar stated that most of the fIrms felt they lacked the complete understanding of the
type of design and the amenities the building would be composed of. Councilmember
Orttel didn't feel we would have a true number until a fITIll is appointed and they draw up
a set of plans. At that time we would get an engineering estimate of the project cost.
Mr. Erar noted that we received cost estimates from a number of firms ranging &om 9.5
million to 16.234 million. The RFP process served to confirm the cost per square foot.
Councilmember Knight stated that Opus got their concept &om our website. Council
member Trude also noted that Opus didn't do a cost per square foot. They had spec
sheets with the components priced out.
Council members questioned the matrix provided showing that some of the firms that
were interviewed were unclear about some of the items listed. Mr. Erar explained that he
put the matrix together prior to the interviews as a preliminary review of the proposals.
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Special Council Workshop
February 25,2003 - Minutes
Page 3
Councilmember Trude felt that this is a very important public project and a lot of people
will continue to follow it.
MOTION by Trude, seconded by Knight that we set up interviews with the fIrms listed
plus Opus to get answers on bonding, tax implications, etc.
Councilmember Knight noted that money has to be a big consideration because we're
100king at some big cuts at the state level.
Councilmember Jacobson asked what Mr. Dickinson was estimating the cost of the
community center to be when he did the spreadsheets in September 2002 regarding lease
revenue with donations. Mr. Dickinson noted that it was 13.5 million dollars.
Councilmember Jacobson asked if we will be able to afford bond payments if the
Governor's proposal goes into effect. Mr. Dickinson responded that there are a lot of
unknown variables as to what the legislature is going to do so we don't have an answer.
Councilmember Orttel asked if the motion means that we should re-interview the
individuals. Councilmember Trude stated yes as there are many questions that need to be
asked. Councilmember Orttel explained that the committee that did the interviews was
composed of professionals and he didn't think he could do anything different or better
than the committee did. Everything has been discussed and analyzed. Councilmember
Trude stated that she would feel better talking to her constituents if the Council
interviewed the firms.
Councilmember Jacobson noted that once we select a f= or firms we will tell them what
we are going to use as a figUre for the project and they will base their fees on that
number. Mr. Erar stated that the fees for professional services are a percentage of what
the final project cost will be. He also noted that the YMCA is a very important part of
this as their lease payments will be for the debt service the city will incur.
Harold Mezille, YMCA, felt that it is important to build a quality facility. If the
specifications are not appropriate, you find yourself spending more money later on.
Phil Nyvall, YMCA, noted that it was quite a process with 17 hours of interviews. Mr.
Erar's write-up is accurate and complete. Council does have some difficult budgeting
considerations, He felt that the project is closer to $14 million. He explained that in the
process of selecting someone, part of the process is to come up with skematic plans.
From there you try to develop the project on budget.
Special City Council Workshop
February 25, 2003 - Minutes
Page 4
Councilmember Jacobson asked what obligation we have to the fIrm selected. If the
architect says it's now going to be $15 million and we decide to drop the project, do we
have a financial obligation to the firm? Mr. Erar explained that we would negotiate that
in the contract. There would be some fmancial expenses that the firms would want to be
paid for up to the point where the project would be stopped.
Councilmember Trude stated that a project of this size is going to require the whole
group to work together. She is asking Council to give up a couple of hours so her
concerns can be answered.
Councilmember Knight stated that he resents the inference that Councilmember Orttel
feels that the thing with Opus is about friendship. He hasn't spoken to anyone at Opus
since this whole thing started. He checked with the city attorney who found no problem.
Mr. Erar also checked with the city attorney and he said there was no problem.
Councilmember Orttel stated he was not implying that Councilmember Knight did
anything wrong. The problem is taking someone who had no votes and bring them back
to be interviewed. Councilmember Trude noted that a member of the committee had
asked her several times why Opus was not being interviewed.
Mayor Gamache noted that what he uses to make his decision is experience with
YMCA's, ice arenas, etc. He didn't know what more he could ask the firms.
Councilmember Jacobson asked what the interviews would be based on if the fIrms were
re-interviewed.
Councilmember Knight stated that he would abstain from voting.
Councilmember Orttel noted that the ultimate decision is what it will cost the residents.
It would seem more logical for Jim to do a pro forma based on a $12 or $14 million
facility so we know what the net cost to the public would be. That will determine how
much of a building we can afford. He stated that he would not be available for any
interviews or meetings from March 5 through March 15. Councilmember Trude asked if
he would be unhappy ifCouncil did the interviews while he is gone. Councilmember
Orttel stated he would be.
Councilmember Trude wondered if the people who want to go with the staff
recommendation are concerned with the budget implications. Mr. Erar stated that the
committee never suggested that the budget for this project was irrelevant. He noted that a
well-constructed building would be $14 million. If Council wants to spend only $12
million we will look at the size of the building and the programs.
Special City Council Workshop
February 25, 2003 - Minutes
Page 5
Councilmember Knight stated that at one of the meetings he said that we have to be
cognizant of what the residents will have to pay and Mr. Erar said that was a political
decision. Mr. Erar stated that if Council wants the same values that were identified in the
proposal, then the consequences would be to reduce the size of the building.
Councilmember Trude stated that she and Councilmember Knight feel a deep
commitment to the pocketbooks of the residents and she feels their integrity has been
compromised.
Frank Kellogg stated that everyone is concerned about the cost. He questioned whether
an increase in cost is due to the YMCA.
Vote on Motion: Yes - Trude; No - Orttel, Gamache, Jacobson; Abstain - Knight
Mayor Gamache stated that the separate proposals are R1M Construction and Rozeboom
Miller and the joint service proposal is Ryan Companies.
Councilmember Trude noted that at a special council workshop on November 13, 2002
the minutes indicate that Council should have a presentation from the top two or three
fIrms so people know what is going on.
Council discussed which proposal would be best, separate services or joint services. It
was noted that the joint services proposal provided by Ryan Companies is approximately
$150,000 more than the separate construction manager and architect proposals.
Councilmember Jacobson stated that even ifhe votes on a company tonight doesn't mean
that he will vote on a project.
Councilmember Trude noted that as a part of the process references need to be checked
and projects done by the firms should be looked at. Mr. Erar noted that references would
be checked as part of our due diligence.
Councilmember Orttel noted that only five or six of the fIrms came up with any type of
cost estimate. Councilmember Jacobson asked the representatives of Ryan and R1M
about their estimates.
R1M Construction representative stated that a building could be done for $10 million.
However, there are very specific standards in the RFP. He stated that the fee is the issue
tonight.
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Special Council Workshop
February 25, 2003 - Minutes
Page 6
Ryan Companies representative stated that they could work to any number Council
chooses. He asked Council to choose a team they are comfortable with.
.
Phil Nyvall felt that the process went very well. Everyone had the opportunity to speak
their minds. Typically the YMCA would prefer a separate architect and construction
management services primarily because of the checks and balances type affect.
Mr. Erar noted that he also has the minutes ITom the November 13, 2002 meeting in
terms of the process because it's been suggested that the process was not being followed.
The minutes indicate under Recommendation #3 that Councilmember Trude stated she
would like to see Councilmember Knight remain as the Council' s representative on the
task force. She also stated she would sit in on it if they need two members. The motion
was to approve items 1-5 of document 5ai with changes to item 3 which was to include a
resident and CounciImember Knight in the interview process. He believes that the
direction Council set as far as the interview process went was followed to the letter. He
reaffumed his position that Councilmember Knight does not have a conflict of interest,
MOTION by Trude, seconded by Knight that we interview those three fums tomorrow
night or Friday night before Ken Orttel goes out oftown or Saturday if we need to make
that decision.
Councilmember Knight asked at what point in the process do we get all the costs and
details to compare. He felt it would be hard to make a choice before having that
information. Councilmember Orttel stated that when the plans and specs are drawn, we
would know that information. Mr. Erar felt it's important not to micro-manage these
details. It's always been a staff function to insure that once Council identifies a project
budget that those components are incorporated in a manner in keeping with the values the
Council articulates.
Vote on motion: Yes - Trude; No - Jacobson, Knight, Gamache, Orttel. Motion fails.
MOTION by Jacobson, seconded by Orttel to go ahead with the separate proposals.
Motion carried on a 4-yes (Orttel, Gamache, Trude, Jacobson); I-no (Knight) vote.
Council questioned whether the motion meant that we are simply going with separate
proposals or if Rozeboom-Miller and RJM Construction are the firms we will use.
Councilmember Jacobson stated that his motion was to go with Rozeboom-Miller and
RJM Construction.
Special Council Workshop
February 25, 2003 - Minutes
Page 7
Mayor Gamache stated that the next item is to establish a project budget and direct staff
to prepare a cash flow analysis and begin preliminary negotiations with the YMCA
regarding a Lease Commitment Agreement
Councilmember Trude didn't think we are ready to do that yet.
MOTION by Trude, seconded by Jacobson to go with a $12 million facility and evaluate
other factors that we don't have at this time such as the YMCA report and Saterbak's
current status of fundraising goals.
RJM Construction representative stated that they will give the city scenarios for $10, $12
and $14 million facilities and it will be the city's decision to pick which one they want.
Mr. Erar noted that work committees would be formed and suggested that a
representative from the hockey association be on the committee.
Councilmember Jacobson asked Mr. Erar to bring back a recommended list of committee
members.
Motion carried unanimously.
Recess at 9:45 pm - Reconvene 9:55 pm.
AHYHA UPDATE
Mr. Dickinson explained that at the February 18,2003 meeting Council directed the
Finance Director to meet with the AHYHA to review their responses to staff's report that
was provided to the Council regarding the proposal to remove the ice arena &om the
Community Center project. Mr. Dickinson reviewed his staff report noting that AHYHA
is seeking a long-term lease; the city is being requested to underwrite and absorb cost of
all site improvements; the city is being requested to issue 501 c3 bonds for constructing
the ice arena; AHYHA is requesting $200,000 cash for startup operations and $125,000
annually for 8 years thereafter; and AHYHA is requesting that the building be built
privately and run privately by an ice arena board of directors.
Mr. Dickinson reported that the city's interest rates would probably be lower on a bond
issuance than a 50lc3 issuance. AHYHA used non-governmental run facilities as their
models rather than governmental run facilities. The issue of fiscal disparities depends on
who is the underlying owner of the property. If owned by the city there would most
likely be no fiscal disparities contribution necessary. AHYHA is contending that the
design/build construction approach they intend to use will yield a 6 to 7 percent cost
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Special Council Workshop
February 25, 2003 - Minutes
Page 8
savings. AHYHA also states that with only 5% of residents supporting an ice arena,
having the arena attached to the community center is not needed. AHYHA needs to
commit to ice time and secure ice time for the ensuing season each June. They contend
that if a contract were signed in March of this year, an arena would be available by
November 1,2003. AHYHA also feels that the Council should look at the equality of the
city's expenditures to various athletic programs.
Frank Kellogg, AHYHA, asked to hear Council's thought process as it relates to their
proposal. Mayor Gamache stated that he believes the Council should move forward on
the community center as a whole. Councilmember Jacobson felt that separating the ice
arena ITom the community center would be a disservice to the project. Councilmember
Orttel agreed. Councilmember Knight noted that he understands the hockey association's
problem. The city will be spending $1.25 million on fields in Andover Station North and
he believes the hockey association deserves their share.
JoAnn Taie, hockey association, didn't feel comfortable that the community center will
be a reality. She didn't know what options they have but stated they will continue to
explore them. They are the only group pushing to get the community center built when
they need it. The soccer people haven't been asking for indoor soccer facilities.
Councilmember Knight suggested a fallback plan in the event the community center is
not built.
JoAnn Taie - stated that the city has been talking about this for two and a half years and
they still don't have a place for their kids to skate.
Frank Kellogg noted that they have always said they would like to keep the ice arena as
part of the community center. Their proposal states that the kids will be skating by
November 1, 2003 if a contract is signed by April 1 st. They want a guarantee that
October 1, 2004 is a reality if the ice arena is part of the community center. At that time
they need to go out and try to secure ice for the next season. Mr. Kellogg asked that
Councillook at their proposal and put a time line on it as Council will know by
November 1 if the community center is going to be built. He also requested Council to
tell the hockey association which parts of their proposal they agree with.
Councilmember Jacobson stated that within 90 days we will know what is going on with
the state and we'll know what we're going to do.
Tony Howard asked for some assurance from the Council that the community center
project will be done. Mayor Gamache stated that it's difficult to give them a commitment
right now because we don't know what's going to happen at the state.
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Special Council Workshop
February 25, 2003 - Minutes
Page 9
Councilmember Trude expressed concern with lease revenue bonds. She felt it would be
prudent to have a fallback pIan.
JoAnn Taie asked if the community center comes in at $12 million, does Council feel that
is what was communicated to the public. Mayor Gamache explained that Council will
have to get out and convey the price to the public.
Bill Hupp asked if there are costs associated with each of the components of the
community center. Mayor Gamache stated that will be part of the negotiations.
MOTION by Knight, seconded by Jacobson to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously.
Meeting adjourned at 10:55 pm.
Respectfully submitted,
fL¿ {/ß
Vicki Volk
City Clerk
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