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Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Workshop
Meeting Agenda
September 8, 2015
Andover City Hall
Conference Rooms A & B
6:00 p.m.
1. Call to Order
2. Discuss Subordinate Classroom Structures
a) Other Cities Requirements
b) Life Span of the Structure
c) Quality of Structures
3. Discuss PUD Requirements
• 4. Other Business
5. Adjournment
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NDOVE
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION WORKSHOP MEETING
SEPTEMBER 8, 2015
The Workshop Meeting of the Andover Planning and Zoning Commission was called to
order by Chairperson Daninger on September 8, 2015, 6:00 p.m., at the Andover City
Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota.
Commissioners present: Chairperson Daninger, Commissioners Tim Cleven, Bert
Koehler, Kyle Nemeth, and Jeff Sims.
Commissioners absent: Lynae Gudmundson, Steve Peterson
Also present: Community Development Director Dave Carlberg
City Planner Stephanie Hanson
• Others
DISCUSS SUBORDINATE CLASSROOM STRUCTURES
a. Other Cities Requirements
b. Life Span of the Structure
c. Quality of Structures
City Planner Hanson stated she looked at ten different metro cities and Andover's code is
very similar to them. She stated some cities do not even address subordinate classroom
structures. Coon Rapids used to have them in their code and removed them so they are
not allowed at all.
Chairperson Daninger indicated he did not remember if this item was the Commission's
idea to take a look at or was it directed by the City Council. Commissioner Cleven stated
the Commission wanted to look at this because the subordinate classroom extensions are
never ending. Commissioner Nemeth stated if the structures are temporary, then why are
they always getting approved with sidewalks and landscaping. Commissioner Cleven
stated even in the report the Fire Department goes in and inspects them and approves
• them as long as they meet the current safety codes.
Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Workshop Meeting
Minutes — September 8, 2015
Page 2
• Chairperson Daninger asked what if they changed the wording to portable classrooms.
Commissioner Cleven stated they could not call them that because then they would need
to be readily moveable which they are not. Chairperson Daninger asked if they should
then be called classrooms.
City Planner Hanson stated some of the other cities definition states the structures need to
be used only for classrooms, not offices or storage.
Commissioner Nemeth stated it seems like the applicants need to be given a timeframe or
a sunset clause which will make them do something within the specified period of time or
they would need to remove the structure.
Commissioner Koehler asked if the City is going to keep renewing the structures and the
Building Department and Fire Department say they are safe, why do we care. He asked if
there is some mechanism they could put in place to make these permanent rather than
renewing them year after year.
Commissioner Cleven stated in order for a piece of property, temporary of any type, for it
to be permanent, it has to be set on a foundation with permanent water, sewer and power
connected to it. Commissioner Koehler stated when he says permanent he means the
City's idea of permanent like a PUD on the property. It could be a lasting permit as long
• as the Building Department and Fire Department say it is safe.
Commissioner Nemeth stated the retoricalness of it is the applicants have been given the
opportunity to build but the City keeps approving the subordinate building so there is no
real incentive to build within the specified timeframe. He agreed after a set amount of
time it needs to have a sunset clause. After a set amount of time then the City needs to
tell the owner they need to bring something through as a site plan or something like that
and get something done rather than continuing to approve the structure.
Chairperson Daninger stated something that bothers him is the never ending extension
approvals. Commissioner Koehler stated that is why he is suggesting converting it to
permanent at some point. He stated he did not think these structures are safe and he
would feel really bad if someone got hurt.
Commissioner Cleven indicated he did not think these are safe structures. Commissioner
Nemeth thought they were setting a precedent by approving these without setting a sunset
clause on them. He thought they needed to start enforcing the time frame of the approval.
City Planner Hanson thought Public Schools did not need permitting for the structures.
Community Development Director Carlberg stated the old structures did not need
permitting but the new ones would need permitting because they will fall under the new
IUP rules.
•
Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Workshop Meeting
Minutes — September 8, 2015
Page 3
• Chairperson Daninger stated he was ok with approving the structure but only allowing a
certain amount of time such as seven years and no longer. Commissioner Nemeth stated
they could go with a five year permit with a possible two year extension but no longer.
Commissioner Sims thought they would need a reason why not to continue to approve the
permit. Commissioner Cleven stated in his mind these structures are not temporary
because a temporary structure gets removed after the set number of time that it was
approved for. He stated a temporary structure can become permanent if anchored to a
concrete slab and can be connected to water, sewer and electricity.
Commissioner Koehler stated he liked the idea of approving a permit of five years with a
two year extension but he thought it should be longer like another five years because of
economic downturns and he thought ten years would be enough for a turn around.
City Planner Hanson stated the Fire Chief stated the Fire Department treats these as
permanent structures in the City. She indicated she will get a more definifive answer to
this.
Commissioner Cleven stated Andover does not allow mobile homes in the City and that
is what these are. Commissioner Nemeth stated he understood where Councilmember
Knight was coming from with schools because of the up and down cycles of the
• populations.
Commissioner Cleven stated if we do not allow mobile homes in the City, why are we
allowing kids to spend time in one at school. Community Development Director
Carlberg stated the City does not allow mobile homes but they do allow manufactured
homes provided they are located in a manufactured home park.
Chairperson Daninger asked if this can go before the City Council indicating the
Planning Commission would like to change this to a five year permit with a possible
extension for two years and then be done. Community Development Director Carlberg
asked if this would be new or existing or both. Chairperson Daninger thought this should
include new and existing allowing the extension only once it comes up for renewal.
Commissioner Koehler thought they should not require someone to remove the building
but have the possibility of converting it to a permanent structure.
Community Development Director Carlberg stated he would bring this item forward to
the City Council for further direction and come back to the Planning Commission with
more direction.
•
Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Workshop Meeting
Minutes — September 8, 2015
Page 4
• DISCUSS PUD REQUIREMENTS
City Planner Hanson stated the reason this item is being discussed is because the
Planning Commission did not feel like the City was asking enough in return from the
developers for a PUD. She reviewed the information with the Commission.
There was discussion about previous PUD developments in the City.
Chairperson Daninger stated they have to think logically when they ask the developer for
the PUD's otherwise it costs the City money in the long run. Commissioner Sims asked
if a PUD required an association. Community Development Director Carlberg indicated
they did not.
Chairperson Daninger stated sometimes with a PUD they need to try to figure out what
would work best. Community Development Director Carlberg thought the big factor was
what the quality was of the project coming in and is there a market for that type of
development. He thought they needed to learn from PUD mistakes from the past and be
smarter in what they look at in the future.
Commissioner Koehler thought there was the idea of a shopping list of what they look for
in a PUD. He stated what might be a really nice addendum is a shopping list of what
• should be avoided when looking at a PUD. Community Development Director Carlberg
stated there are in City Code 13 -3 -11 desirable PUD design quality and are the things
they need to be looking at when a PUD is done. He also stated that staff should send a
stronger message to the developer the importance to write a narrative as to how they are
addressing the items.
Chairperson Daninger stated he would encourage staff to ask what the developer is doing
to earn that PUD, that way the Planning Commission could see what would be beneficial
to the City.
Commissioner Nemeth agreed with Commissioner Koehler's idea but did not want to
limit the developer to items that might help their development. He thought it should be a
more general question that is asked of the developer.
Community Development Director Carlberg reviewed what the Planning Commission
discussed and stated staff would come back with checklists for the Commission to use.
OTHER BUSINESS
Community Development Director Carlberg asked if the Commission wanted an
electronic copy of the packet along with a paper copy. The Commission thought a paper
• copy would be adequate so they could make notes on it.
Andover Planning and Zoning Commission Workshop Meeting
Minutes — September 8, 2015
Page 5
ADJOURNMENT:
Motion by Koehler, seconded by Cleves, to adjourn the meeting at 6:57 p.m. Motion
carried on a 5 -ayes, 0 -nays, 2- absent (Gudmundson, Peterson) vote.
Respectfully Submitted,
Sue Osbeck, Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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